Alcohol Whilst Gaining

Here’s a tip: Stop drinking for a month, then when you come back, you have a lower tolerance. I wonder if there are any studies on alcohol tolerance and if it affects other training factors. Anyone know?

[quote]CKMAN wrote:
Poliquin believes that so many men in the UK have man boobs because they drink so much beer. He believes beer is that estrogenic. If you must drink alcohol, he recommends you make it red wine. Apparently, red wine actually prevents aromatization.[/quote]

The hops that are used to brew beer are packed with phytoestrogens. I recall seeing something on Spike talking about how drinking beer seems to make womens’ boobs get bigger. However, they failed to make the obvious conclusion that the same can happen in men.

Soo if alcohol spikes insulin something fierce, I should throw a few shots of rum into my postworkout shake. Nice it’s like killing 3 birds with one stone!!

[quote]ucallthatbass wrote:
Soo if alcohol spikes insulin something fierce, I should throw a few shots of rum into my postworkout shake. Nice it’s like killing 3 birds with one stone!![/quote]

Old time strongmen like Arthur Saxon use to mix gin and stout beer and drink it after a workout.

Widowmaker’s followed by Boilermaker’s FTW

It’s funny because Arnold’s post-workout meal in the 60s consisted of beer and a whole chicken when he was trying to gain mass.

[quote]WS4JB wrote:
Liv92 wrote:
Don’t mean to Hijack the thread but I have a serious question…

In about a month me and a bunch of buds/gals are gonna go to the mountains and get a cabin and a tent. Basically where gonna be getting wasted for 2-3 days… How much is this gonna put me back training wise? Will it really set me back a bit? I’ll really try not to drink for a long time after this, so…?

I read the other day that one night of very heavy drinking can set you back as much as 2 weeks.[/quote]

What? Okay, so it must be true then.

Have you guys ever got shitfaced? Did it set you back two weeks? LOL. Now, I’m not going to say I’m setting PRs the next day, but it certainly doesn’t set me back two weeks.

Thanks for the responses guys. I will have fun and not worry about it. It’s not like i get shit faced often.

[quote]djrobins wrote:
I noticed a shot of whiskey before a power session and I can go harder, it takes about 15 minutes - but you will notice. I’m sure if you go hard enough you will burn the extra calories.

Alcohol is estrogenic, but if it lets you “go harder” you can take advantage of it and make it work for you.

[/quote]

If you could BURN the calories from alcohol - then they wouldn’t be useless. And they are.

Calories from alcohol will be stored as adipose - but wont be used before that.

Not only that, but with it also increasing the activity of aromatase - it is just negative.

It is not the case that you cannot build an amazing physique (for whatever goal) when you drink - but it MUST be in moderate frequency (not weekly) and moderate volume (not to get pissed up every time).

It IS the case that weekly piss ups will hinder your ability to train AND your ability to recover later in the week.

If anyone is arguing something else, it is because they drink and can’t or won’t stop (and need to lie to themselves that they do it for its overwhelming health benefits).

“I like 2 cigarettes and a line of coke before a power session as they stimulate me to lift more” - now while this is obviously not true - i bet in the short term it may well be… but in the long term i would bet on the guy who didn’t do the shot/line/smokes before lifting.

[quote]markdp wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
Liv92 wrote:
Don’t mean to Hijack the thread but I have a serious question…

In about a month me and a bunch of buds/gals are gonna go to the mountains and get a cabin and a tent. Basically where gonna be getting wasted for 2-3 days… How much is this gonna put me back training wise? Will it really set me back a bit? I’ll really try not to drink for a long time after this, so…?

I read the other day that one night of very heavy drinking can set you back as much as 2 weeks.

What? Okay, so it must be true then.

Have you guys ever got shitfaced? Did it set you back two weeks? LOL. Now, I’m not going to say I’m setting PRs the next day, but it certainly doesn’t set me back two weeks.[/quote]

Yeah I’m gonna have to agree with this that there’s no way that one binge set you back two whole weeks. I think in terms of muscle mass it can prevent you from gaining for maybe a day or two, but I doubt that it’ll make you actually lose muscle mass (provided that you’re not replacing your calories from stuff like meat or oatmeal with calories from alcohol).

[quote]CKMAN wrote:
Poliquin believes that so many men in the UK have man boobs because they drink so much beer. He believes beer is that estrogenic. If you must drink alcohol, he recommends you make it red wine. Apparently, red wine actually prevents aromatization.[/quote]

So is beer the only type of alcohol which has has the negative side effect of increasing estrogen levels then?

[quote] Brook wrote:
djrobins wrote:
I noticed a shot of whiskey before a power session and I can go harder, it takes about 15 minutes - but you will notice. I’m sure if you go hard enough you will burn the extra calories.

Alcohol is estrogenic, but if it lets you “go harder” you can take advantage of it and make it work for you.

If you could BURN the calories from alcohol - then they wouldn’t be useless. And they are.

Calories from alcohol will be stored as adipose - but wont be used before that.

Not only that, but with it also increasing the activity of aromatase - it is just negative.

It is not the case that you cannot build an amazing physique (for whatever goal) when you drink - but it MUST be in moderate frequency (not weekly) and moderate volume (not to get pissed up every time).

It IS the case that weekly piss ups will hinder your ability to train AND your ability to recover later in the week.

If anyone is arguing something else, it is because they drink and can’t or won’t stop (and need to lie to themselves that they do it for its overwhelming health benefits).

“I like 2 cigarettes and a line of coke before a power session as they stimulate me to lift more” - now while this is obviously not true - i bet in the short term it may well be… but in the long term i would bet on the guy who didn’t do the shot/line/smokes before lifting.[/quote]

Exactly how are calories from alcohol (beer presumably, since thats what everyone is mentioning) stored as adipose? There is 0% fat content in beer so that is false.

Added to that people misconstrue that beer contains high levels of carbs, mainly from simple sugars and maltrose which is false, beer and light beer in particular have very low carb levels.

As far as the insulin spike… you would have to consume 8 beers within 15 minutes for any notible increase on the glycemic index and it cannot be practically measured.

The “phytoestogens” leading to moobs may be relavent, but coffee, sunflower seeds (Coumestrol), and even Pomegranates (Greeks used them as contraceptives) contain them or estrogen precursors as well. There used to be a big fad of using plant testosterones and testosterone precursors to spur GH, but that worked like crap. The human body cannot break down plant cells, PERIOD.

The biggest problem is that people eat like sh#@ when they drink, and most drinkers don’t workout and have lack discipline.

Alcohol is a diuretic, although I wouldn’t neccessarily use it to cut water weight.

Having said all that, I don’t see any positve effects drinking would have (other than mood) but as far as the negative, it’s mostly B.S. and myth.

Drinking will have a negative impact on training, muscle gain, and fatloss

How much will depend entirely on the amount your doing it, and 100 other factors that are unique to you.

Theres no possible way to quantify it in anyway whatsoever. Trying to say “x” nights of drinking will do “y” to your training and nutrition is totally fucking retarded.

If you want to get hammered for a weekend, do it, if you have a body building competition coming up or your running a triathlon in weeks time, don’t

Its all a matter of perspective and priorities.

I think alcohol kills leptin levels as well, making your bulking potentially less “lean”. Theres probably some other reason this is bad.

Also,you sleep will be less restful.

And I for one cant work out with a hangover.

I binged nearly every weekend for the better part of a decade. Could not lose weight very well, but I did put some substantial lean (and otherwise) mass on, but when I passed on the drinking my results -felt- like they were better. Never quantified it, but I know I grew a lot more when I didnt drink. I would get absolutely shitfaced, like losng count of how much I drank, so maybe this isnt you.

I barely drink now and have been cutting. I will be looking to put on 5-10 lbs once I feel like my set point has reset in a month or two, and I cant wait to put on mass without the booze setting me back.

[quote]Scorzerci wrote:
markdp wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
Liv92 wrote:
Don’t mean to Hijack the thread but I have a serious question…

In about a month me and a bunch of buds/gals are gonna go to the mountains and get a cabin and a tent. Basically where gonna be getting wasted for 2-3 days… How much is this gonna put me back training wise? Will it really set me back a bit? I’ll really try not to drink for a long time after this, so…?

I read the other day that one night of very heavy drinking can set you back as much as 2 weeks.

What? Okay, so it must be true then.

Have you guys ever got shitfaced? Did it set you back two weeks? LOL. Now, I’m not going to say I’m setting PRs the next day, but it certainly doesn’t set me back two weeks.

Yeah I’m gonna have to agree with this that there’s no way that one binge set you back two whole weeks. I think in terms of muscle mass it can prevent you from gaining for maybe a day or two, but I doubt that it’ll make you actually lose muscle mass (provided that you’re not replacing your calories from stuff like meat or oatmeal with calories from alcohol).

CKMAN wrote:
Poliquin believes that so many men in the UK have man boobs because they drink so much beer. He believes beer is that estrogenic. If you must drink alcohol, he recommends you make it red wine. Apparently, red wine actually prevents aromatization.

So is beer the only type of alcohol which has has the negative side effect of increasing estrogen levels then?[/quote]

No. It may be the worst offender for increasing estrogen levels, but it’s not the only one. The important thing to remember is that any alcohol you binge on can lower your T levels, but having say a couple of drinks each week will not have a negative effect on your hormones.

[quote]solid0351 wrote:

Exactly how are calories from alcohol (beer presumably, since thats what everyone is mentioning) stored as adipose? There is 0% fat content in beer so that is false.

Added to that people misconstrue that beer contains high levels of carbs, mainly from simple sugars and maltrose which is false, beer and light beer in particular have very low carb levels.

As far as the insulin spike… you would have to consume 8 beers within 15 minutes for any notible increase on the glycemic index and it cannot be practically measured.

The “phytoestogens” leading to moobs may be relavent, but coffee, sunflower seeds (Coumestrol), and even Pomegranates (Greeks used them as contraceptives) contain them or estrogen precursors as well. There used to be a big fad of using plant testosterones and testosterone precursors to spur GH, but that worked like crap. The human body cannot break down plant cells, PERIOD.

The biggest problem is that people eat like sh#@ when they drink, and most drinkers don’t workout and have lack discipline.

Alcohol is a diuretic, although I wouldn’t neccessarily use it to cut water weight.

Having said all that, I don’t see any positve effects drinking would have (other than mood) but as far as the negative, it’s mostly B.S. and myth.[/quote]

Wow, I was going to post something to refute your alcohol & fat statement, but the research disproved my own preconceptions – I’m still chuckling, so…thank you for indirectly adding to my knowledge base. Specifically, the research I read indicates that regular, moderate drinkers had on average lower body mass indexes than people who would regularly drink heavily just on weekends. The exact mechanisms of action are still debated, but the results of studies so far (many of which include data taken from tens of thousands of people over several years) do back up your statement.

That said, could you qualify the statement that the human body cannot break down plant cells? We can absorb macronutrients and micronutrients from plants all the time – heck, the development of plant foods is considered the foundation of settled civilization itself. Please explain what you meant…I’m not going to bother making any assertions after getting my whole alcohol world-view turned upside down :), so I’m going to assume I’m not understanding exactly what you were trying to say regarding breaking down plant cells…just clarify the matter. Thanks in advance…oh and feel free to PM me if you think that this topic is hijacking the thread.

Alcohol and body fat study links –

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/InTheNews/MedicalReports/Other/1112124376.html
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholCaloriesAndWeight.html

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Drinking will have a negative impact on training, muscle gain, and fatloss

How much will depend entirely on the amount your doing it, and 100 other factors that are unique to you.

Theres no possible way to quantify it in anyway whatsoever. Trying to say “x” nights of drinking will do “y” to your training and nutrition is totally fucking retarded.

If you want to get hammered for a weekend, do it, if you have a body building competition coming up or your running a triathlon in weeks time, don’t

Its all a matter of perspective and priorities.
[/quote]

Totally agree, great post.

[quote]solid0351 wrote:
Brook wrote:
djrobins wrote:
I noticed a shot of whiskey before a power session and I can go harder, it takes about 15 minutes - but you will notice. I’m sure if you go hard enough you will burn the extra calories.

Alcohol is estrogenic, but if it lets you “go harder” you can take advantage of it and make it work for you.

If you could BURN the calories from alcohol - then they wouldn’t be useless. And they are.

Calories from alcohol will be stored as adipose - but wont be used before that.

Not only that, but with it also increasing the activity of aromatase - it is just negative.

It is not the case that you cannot build an amazing physique (for whatever goal) when you drink - but it MUST be in moderate frequency (not weekly) and moderate volume (not to get pissed up every time).

It IS the case that weekly piss ups will hinder your ability to train AND your ability to recover later in the week.

If anyone is arguing something else, it is because they drink and can’t or won’t stop (and need to lie to themselves that they do it for its overwhelming health benefits).

“I like 2 cigarettes and a line of coke before a power session as they stimulate me to lift more” - now while this is obviously not true - i bet in the short term it may well be… but in the long term i would bet on the guy who didn’t do the shot/line/smokes before lifting.

Exactly how are calories from alcohol (beer presumably, since thats what everyone is mentioning) stored as adipose? There is 0% fat content in beer so that is false. [/quote]

No, not beer - as i said Alcohol. And i clearly didn’t mention is had a fat content.
Alcohol has 7Kcal/g. This is eventually stored as fat to a large degree - look at the stomach of any heavy drinker (and breasts!).[quote]

Added to that people misconstrue that beer contains high levels of carbs, mainly from simple sugars and maltrose which is false, beer and light beer in particular have very low carb levels.[/quote]

The added carbs are just worsening the matter - but as i am talking about alcohol in as of itself, ‘lite’ beers are really irrelevant (as they still contain more carbs that straight alcohol products such as Vodka). Besides, i know that in the UK there are not too many who ONLY drink lite beer.
Also those who do drink beers and lagers, can drink upwards of 10 pints a night… with 200kcals to a pint olf Stella… well you get the idea.[quote]

As far as the insulin spike… you would have to consume 8 beers within 15 minutes for any notible increase on the glycemic index and it cannot be practically measured.[/quote]

Far enough. I don’t remember mentioning an insulin spike… :)[quote]

The “phytoestogens” leading to moobs may be relavent, but coffee, sunflower seeds (Coumestrol), and even Pomegranates (Greeks used them as contraceptives) contain them or estrogen precursors as well. There used to be a big fad of using plant testosterones and testosterone precursors to spur GH, but that worked like crap. The human body cannot break down plant cells, PERIOD.[/quote]

So in the first line you say they might be relevant, in the last line you say they absolutely are not. Make you mind up!

I don’t know what makes alcohol estrogenic - i wouldn’t have thought it was phytoestrogens simply as alcohol needn’t be made from Hops…
Still - i know that due to amounts used or potency - alcohol is significantly more estrogenic than coffee - for example.[quote]

The biggest problem is that people eat like sh#@ when they drink, and most drinkers don’t workout and have lack discipline.[/quote]

Not where i live. 99% of trainees at my gym drink. I am a rare breed - and i wasn’t always either.
You are right that people eat like shite when they drink - they also do the next day, and if they drink to the extent they get a hangover they wont train well or at all.

But it just adds to the negatives of alcohol, it isn’t harmless in and of itself and i am astounded anyone can argue that it is in this day and age TBH.[quote]

Alcohol is a diuretic, although I wouldn’t neccessarily use it to cut water weight.

Having said all that, I don’t see any positve effects drinking would have (other than mood) but as far as the negative, it’s mostly B.S. and myth.[/quote]

No - it is very negative - even if one ate like an angel on it - as i have pointed out.

And i personally know that MANY people do not have a better mood on Alcohol, but worse. Fightling, arguing, etc. I happen to know that they don’t even feel good the majority of the time - it just makes you not notice so much. And forget.

And before anyone judges, yes i do drink and yes i have drunk extensively in the past. I cannot stand those who judge alcohol/drugs but have never tried it personally.

what about whiskey and bourbon and such?

[quote]Branded1 wrote:
stevo_ wrote:
Drinking will have a negative impact on training, muscle gain, and fatloss

How much will depend entirely on the amount your doing it, and 100 other factors that are unique to you.

Theres no possible way to quantify it in anyway whatsoever. Trying to say “x” nights of drinking will do “y” to your training and nutrition is totally fucking retarded.

If you want to get hammered for a weekend, do it, if you have a body building competition coming up or your running a triathlon in weeks time, don’t

Its all a matter of perspective and priorities.

Totally agree, great post.[/quote]

x3