T Nation

Alarmed, Stopping Test

Guys, I have been on a TRT protocol since July at 200mg per week with 250iu HCG twice a week.

I noticed early into it at times numbness in my hands and arms and sometimes while lying down heavy heart beats. Bloods checked out and trt Doctor says that’s not from testosterone. Nothing else has changed but the trt though?

Fast forward to 5 week ago and I decided after approx 6 months of trt at 200mg a week to bump it up to 400mg and do an actual “cycle” well to be honest not much has changed gainz wise and symptoms still the same.

Long story short I am wanting to just stop due to concerns about cardiac issues with even trt at 200mg a week.

The doctor will only supply me with test and HCG. How do I get “nolvadex” for PCT if they won’t write the script for it?

What is the best way to come off stop? Plans are to next day to pin us go from the 400 back to 200 then let that exit my system 10 days maybe more? Then use HCG at higher dosages do I need nolvadex? If so how do I get that?

Thansk

You likely wouldn’t notice any gainz from the 400mg/week until 6 weeks in. If you want to stop get Tamoxifen and (3 weeks after your last shot of T) do 40mg/day for 2 weeks followed by 20mg/day for 3 weeks.

You can get Nolva as a research chem from lots of places online. It can be hit or miss

Just curious but why would it take 6 weeks to notice a gain from 200 to 400mg?

Don’t get me wrong I notice I am a bit better all around and a lot more vascular when working out it kind of makes it’s obvious now that I’m doing something big drug wise :confused: but is it worth doubling the drugs and harshness on my system? Not for me…the 200mg a week had done tremendous for me in the gym.

Because you’re already on 200mg of testosterone so going to 400mg isn’t going to feel like the difference someone not already on testosterone would feel. It takes about 4-6 weeks for your levels to reach that consistent high point and then it takes time for the gainz to come. That’s why you don’t see people running 6 week testosterone cycles. Even 8 weeks seems a bit short. 10-12 week Testosterone cycles are the norm. You can Google “test cycle experience logs” and see most don’t notice much muscle difference until 5-7 weeks in and even then it’s gradual.

I’ve been on 200mg for years and have had decent success enough to not warrant running a cycle just yet.

200mg IMO is alot for TRT. Your sweet spot might be anywhere from 180 to 150. I myself feel best at 160 a week. I actually think the better call is for you to drop your dose well below 200 and find the number that works for you. If not your gonna have to run PCT. A few deep searches on the web may help you find access to the Nolva.

I’m not so sure about this, a good 10-20% of the guys on TRT use 200mg, look at @iron_yuppie’s bloods on 200mg T weekly, they most certainly aren’t excessive… same goes for @dbossa

For me 200mg gives off a slightly excessive total T (around 1200-1300), but HCT doesn’t budge, lipids stay optimal etc… only arguement one can make is regarding what happens to my cardiovascular system long term, I’d say “ehhhh”… at such dosages it’s a “grey zone” of sorts, we just don’t know

AAS/TRT can initially (well with AAS style dosages) induce autonomic dysfunction for those predisposed, hence why we now see so many complaints regarding heart palpitations, PVC’s and whatnot… it’s reversible upon ceasing use so long as you don’t have an undiagnosed heart defect/CVD

  • Beta adrenergic receptor upregulation (sympathetic nervous system dominance), thus inducing increased response to catecholamine release

  • net vasoconstrictive effect/systemic vascular resistance

  • increased BP (perhaps induced by the aforementioned two examples)

rapid/increased generalised body mass etc

I recall seeing one study about AAS users parasympathetic response post exercise, it was heavily blunted… but more interestingly, the average HR of the AAS user was like 84BPM vs around 73 from controls

I’d bet it’s more than that. Every guy I’ve ever met that is on TRT and isn’t on T-nation is doing 200mg/week. It’s basically the cookie cutter dose for every TRT clinic in the US. I know my clinic has several thousand on TRT.

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Say its 90%… He may be in the 10%. What works for one person might not work for another.

But there’s a 90% chance he isn’t :slight_smile:

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Does you’re clinic prescribe higher dosages or synethic androgens. I’m asking for a… friend…

I now have the names of a few potential contenders to see next time I’m in the USA

have one doc that scripts anavar for recreation, two clinics that prescribe deca/orals

One clinic that scripts high dose test (say 300mg)

They are like the teacher in the “Hot for teacher” music video. Does anyone really care if she’s a teacher?..

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Based off his post it doesn’t sound like that’s the correct dose for him.

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yeah I love it when someone points to a dose and says “that’s okay because of my experience and this guys experience”
our bodies aren’t weren’t made with cookie cutters. listen to your own body

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I personally love it when someone has issues on 200mg and then goes to 400mg.

trt dose of 200 is too high for him is what I’m saying L O L. some dude in the thread was saying something about someone he knows being “fine” on 200mg trt and therefore dictating that it’s a universally good dose.

I had all kinds of issues on 200mg. Dropped down to 100mg and increased in 20mg increments every 2-3 months until I got to 200mg where I feel best at. Turns out I just didn’t wait long enough for my body to get used to the dose. I want aware that it takes many months for me to get used to a certain dose and during that time I would feel worse until I felt better. Over time I became aware of what was going on and was able to be patient enough for it to work and my body to adjust. There’s a mental aspect to it as well.

Guys,

Symptoms have been exactly the same at 400 as it was at 200 with maybe a bit more acne.
I feel GREAT just here and there will feel my heart beating heavy usually at night, waking from naps etc and same with the tingling in the arms and hands.

I just need to know do I need “nolvadex” on top of the HCG to put with when I go completely off and where exactly do I get nolvadex.

Just trying to be aware and smart with my health. My total test was 260 I needed to be on it I didn’t just get on test for gym gainz.

Also I’m 36 and have known I had a low test issue since 31. It took that long for my doc to actually convince me to even supplement.

Just to clarify… although I think 200 is alot for TRT , that doesn’t mean I am against it. I think it’s on the high side of a protocol. Especially if dudes experiencing numbness. Personally I recently switched to 4 injections per week. I would be open to exploring higher dosages again with the more frequent injections.

Is numbness a “thing” with testosterone? My doctor acted if SHE never heard of that symptoms when a quick search on google was all over the topic :man_shrugging: But is it something you guys hear about on here much?

Thanks for all the help guys I just want to do what’s best for my health and maybe that’s a lower dose TRT? We shall see but willing to try to come off completely unless some TRT is better for my health.