What do they have against the Egyptians? Anybody know?
Egypt has sent envoys into Iraq, as part of the beginning of diplomatic recognition of the government and Egypt has been friendly/helpful to the Great Satan, I mean, the U.S.
The various Islamic extremist groups are doing this to intimidate moderate Moslems into not helping in Iraq.
Hmmmmm...I've got no idea since I just heard about it but all these bombings are starting to really get out of hand now.
This sort of thing could lead to a war and I don't think thats going to end in a good way...
The Egyptians deal very effectively with Muslim Extremists. They kill or imprison them. Much of this stems back to the first crack down on "The muslim Brotherhood".
It creates a lot of animosity. Since the extremeists have hijacked Islam it's ok for them to kill other Muslims.
From the very beginning, bin Laden has stated that the number one goal of al-qaeda is to create a pan-Islamic theocracy. To this end, the al-qaedites view "secular" regimes like Egypt, Syria, and Iraq as even MORE of an affront to their view of Islam than Israel or the US.
Now, that has to be taken with a grain of salt as most of their attacks have been against the Western powers. However, there's an interesting article from the Army War College Journal, that I posted a long time ago on one of our inane discussions and will try to dredge up, that argued that attacks on the West were designed to pull the Arab world together against us. Sort of a "propoganda by the deed."
Also, its important to remember that al-qaeda does not have a central command structure. All you have to do is carry out a suicide bombing and then claim that you're affiliated with al-qaeda. The media will then do the rest for you. In other words, these are probably some Muslim Brotherhood assholes, as Hedo mentioned, who may or may not have met bin Laden at some point. They're pissed at the 'secular' government so they've struck and al-qaeda gets the media attention, thus furthering al-qaeda's goals.
They did not attack Cario or Alexander but they did attack a tourist resort that caters for Westerns. They were targeting Westerns not Arabs.
When a group is as deranged as them, the whole world is a target.
I remember seeing a special on the origions of el-quaida. They were traced back to political prisoners in Egypt back in the 70's. Is that the Muslim Brotherhood? Or are they a new group?
I think Bin Laden was "asked to leave" Egypt many years ago as he became more extreme. So, he holds a grudge against Egypt for that, along with their helping the U.S.
"We don't want your chocolates, so we will blow up little children who accept them from your evil soldier-minions. We don't want your tourists, so we will blow them up too! You see, we are the worshippers of death. We hate happiness, joy, and life itself. Our goal is suffering and death. Build a water treatment plant? We want people to suffer from lack of clean water! We are the worshippers of death!
By the way, this does not apply to me: I want my kidney dialysis, 5 wives and 27 chidren. Also my 200 million dollars!
--- Osama bin Laden
I'm actually stunned that, almost 4 years after 9/11, people in this country still don't understand the Islamic terrorists' ideology and what they're angry at the West for, rightly or wrongly. And no, they don't "hate us for our freedom" or any other stupid, overly simplistic drivel spouted by certain politicians.
And the the people who live in the Middle East are not all the enemy, nor are they necessarily the friends of Al Qaeda and their ilk. The jihadists don't look at things in simplistic geopoliical terms like, "U.S. bad, Middle Eastern countries good." Some basic reasons why they're pissed (and for more thorough info, please read the book "Imperial Hubris"):
1.) Our blind, unbending support for Israel, come hell or highwater, no matter what. We arm Israel and fund them (to the tune of $300 billion per year) because of a strong pro-Israel/Jewish voting and lobbying block in the U.S., despite the fact that they are flat out sitting on someone else's land, and have been for decades.
2.) Prior to 9/11, our presence (i.e. having a military base) in Saudi Arabia, their so-called "sacred soil," even though it isn't really sacred soil (only Mecca and Medina are), but the jihadists don't and didn't like our being there regardless. Now you can extend this to include our occupation of Iraq, a Muslim nation. (They're not too happy about our presence in Afghanistan either, but they brought that one on themselves, clear as day).
3.) Our support for (and keeping in power of) corrupt, oppressive and secular (non-Islamic) regimes in the Middle East: the al-Saud family in Saudi Arabia (most of all), Mubarek in Egypt, Abdullah in Jordan, the rulers of Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, the U.A.E., etc., etc. These regimes generally rule over nations where most of the people are generally poor while the leaders themselves are filthy, filthy rich. They have shitty economies and awful human rights records with limited freedoms. But most of all, they're not fundamentalist Islamic regimes, i.e. they don't rule by Sharia law, the way the Taleban did. (The jihadists considered the Taleban to be the only "truly" Islamic regime on earth).
They also have various other beefs, from sensible to assinine, including everything from not liking Western culture's permeation of and "corruption" of the Middle East (think Hollywood movies and online porn) to still being pissed about the crusades and other centuries-old East vs. West or Islam vs. Christianity beefs.
But please LEARN 1-3, know them and remember them. They don't just "hate us for our freedoms" (said with a strong redneck accent and a front tooth missing).
They attacked Egypt, by the way because (a.) they don't like Mubarek's regime, as stated above, and (b.) they also saw a chance to kill a bunch of Western (European, American, etc.) tourists.
What you have written is of couse correct it is also incomplete. These are just the current stated reasons. They are an excuse, not the cause.
If items 1 - 3 didn't exist we would still have problems.
The ultimate goal is world domination and an Islamic theocracy.
As simplistic as it sounds, they do hate our freedoms.
They don't want their minds poisoned by MTV.
They do not want freedom of worship.
They do not want women to have rights.
They do not want universal education.
And Israel has as much right to their land as anyone else on the planet. It is called right of conquest. The human race is migratory. Almost every group of people has displaced another people. Israel must do a better job of sharing their land. It is difficult to do when your neighbors are murdering your schoolkids.
The Islamic extremists are doing what they do because of their desire for conquest. We are doing what we are doing because we do not want them in charge.
A world that is free is better than a world dominated by Islamic extremists.
And do not forget, while it is unfortunate we work with these dictatorial states in the Middle East, they are far better for their citizens than the Taliban was. This is not an excuse to tolerate the staus quo. We must always push them to improve their freedoms.
Damici, you raise some good points however it is easier to win public support by selling them the idea muslims "hate us for our freedoms" rather than admitting the years and years of mistreatment(in their opinions at the least) has something to do with it.
maybe the president of the u.s.a. did that and blame the al qaeda, you know he always have his way around things.... what this idiot need to do is to get our soldiers out of there... before they all drop their weaponds and say fuck this...
They do not hate us for OUR freedoms -- they want to instill Sharia law over "their" countries and, as Bin Laden has said, take back "Muslim" land from the secularists (referring mainly to Middle Eastern countries). So he would like to limit the freedoms of the people in those countries, yes, Taleban-style. He has not, as far as I'm aware, made any claims of having the goal of world domination, although I'm sure he wouldn't mind if that were ultimately possible. But he would like to unify one giant Islamic caliphate, i.e. all of the "Muslim" countries, under Sharia law.
So no, they don't want MTV to permeate Muslim lands. They don't want freedom of worship -- in Muslim lands. They don't want women to have rights -- in Muslim lands. They don't want universal education -- in Muslim lands.
They don't give a flying fuck what freedoms WE have, as long as it doesn't affect them and their utopian Sharia state. They don't care that a bunch of Americans in California are sitting around watching porn, drinking beer and not attending mosques.
They hate us because of the effects our policies and actions have had on them (and their dream of a Sharia state). So if we weren't doing anything to interfere with that (and I'm NOT saying we should allow them to have what they want -- don't misinterpret me), they wouldn't have any need or desire to go to war with us.
Yes, many of their beefs are downright silly (they're still pissed at the Spanish for having beaten the Muslim armies about 500 years ago!). Holding grudges over something that happened centuries ago is assinine. BUT, to say that "Israel has as much right to their land as anyone else on the planet" is one of the more patently ludicrous statements I've ever heard. About sixty-five years ago, people -- NOT the Israelis -- were LIVING there. Then they were kicked out and cordoned off. That's a PROBLEM, in any sensible person's eyes. Of course committing terrorist acts in response to it is repulsive, but that doesn't make the situation any less wrong.
But I digress . . .
Damici, great posts bro! Zap, to say the radical muslims want world domination is asinine. Like Damici said they want to live by their religion and philosophy in their lands without interference by others.
We are pretty much in agreement. I just don't believe if they achieved their goals in the Muslim world they would stop there. There are Muslims in our country now. Most are good people and have every right to be here. You can be damn sure that an all powerful Islamic state in the Middle East would try to interfere with their (and our) lifestyles here.
The Israel situation is a tough one. If they were trying to create Israel today I would probably oppose them.
It reminds me of Americas expansion into the west at the expense of those already living there. It was a shitty deal for those living there, but it is now too late to go back. Israel and the Palestinians have to find a better way to coexist, just as we have to find a better way to exist with the American Indian. Maybe the Palestinians can run the casinos in Israel?
"Zap, to say the radical muslims want world domination is asinine. Like Damici said they want to live by their religion and philosophy in their lands without interference by others."
This is YOUR most ridiculous commentary on world affairs.
It is top five most ridiculous statements made in the last year. You are only behind jlesk/al shades.
To make that freakin' statment belies an ignorance of history that is stunning.
I want you to read the history of the Middle East starting around the year 500.
I want you to look up Spain, Turkey, Egypt, etc... Look up Chinese Gordon.
Look up the statments made by various nutcases trying to rule the world under the banner of Islam. Then compare it to bin laden's/al qaeda's statements made over the past fifteen years.
If you will read it, you'll see EXACT phrases that are the same.
To say that if we left them "alone" everything would be all right, is to ignore every single isolationist movement we've tried in our history.
I could go on and on and on and on about what an ignorant statment this was.
I expect little from you, you've given less.
Elk, once again we disagree. Conquerors tend not to stop until someone stops them.
All Hitler wanted was the Sudetenland. And Czechoslovakia. And Poland. And Yugoslavia. And Russia. And France. And Belgium. And Luxembourg. And England.
Basically I do not trust the intentions of those that fly airplanes into buildings.
Al Qaeda attacked that resort because it is frequented by Jews.
Al Qaeda is taking another page out of the KKK handbook.
By the way, I don't doubt that the jihadists would probably LIKE to ultimately have world domination, although Bin Laden has not specifically stated that -- only that he'd like to unite the Muslim nations under one caliphate. BUT, it's kind of irrelevant at the moment, as they're 1,000,000 miles from achieving even the first of their goals right now, so it falls into the real of pure fantasy, if anything.
Would they still be stirring up shit if there was no Israeli state and we didn't have any troops in the Middle East and we weren't occupying any Muslim lands and we weren't propping up despotic, tyrannica regimes in their land and we weren't permeating their culture with our MTV culture? I kind of doubt they'd have a vibrant recruiting base or many, if any, followers for their "jihad to take over the world" in that case. But those are a lot of HUUUUUUUUGE ifs, so it's almost beside the point . . . .