T Nation

AIs Without a Full Cycle

ok,I know this has been discussed many times over.
but please bear with me.

as many of you know I am about 20% body fat.
I am not looking for leaness I am not in competition,I simply want to be as strong as possible and feel the best I can.

now I saw an endo,and this one actually spoke to me about my test results.

what I presumed was low test due to a very rapid weight gain,turns out isnt true at all.
the other docs told me i was in the “low normal” range and wanted to give me narcotics.

I have high Estrogen via aromatazion.
but the doc would not talk to me about trt or anything that involved hormones and said the best he can do is perscribe a nutritionist and somethng to help me sleep.
he said the legalities of it was too much for him to risk.
my diet is perfect,workload is high,its just a long road.

facts that I know by experiance.
on cycle I see improved mood,sleep,body composition,
in my few short cycles and my one long one I have lost a ton of fat,stayed the same weight,arms grew more in 5 months than they have grown in my entire life.
I drop weight and gain weight when I try to.

now I am getting thicker in my back and getting a taper which I think with my work load I deserve,and very proud of.

off cycle,I am back to my lazy depressed self.
I diet and run and I can not loose an ounce.
point is,with higher test I am normal.

question is.
I know that in a healthy lifter with lower body fat,using AIs off cycle really wont do much for them.
in my situation with the higher fat and higher aramotase,assuming I do have normal test production could I benefit from taking an AI to help lower my E while off cycle to have the higer relative test level?
whats the pros and cons of this idea.

so kind of going about the same concept with raising test,in a different angle.

if I explained myself wrong and anyone confused about my request please ask.

Im thinking youd have to use a pretty low dose to avoid killing your estrogen beyond where it should be.

A very low dose AI would certainly give you a little more test and less estrogen.

Next time you come off cycle get blood work done when your test is still in rebound mode.

Youll appear to have low test.

Look around in the over 35 section, I remember something of this nature being discussed a while back.

Ive personally never heard of it being done, but logically it fits.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Im thinking youd have to use a pretty low dose to avoid killing your estrogen beyond where it should be.

A very low dose AI would certainly give you a little more test and less estrogen.

Next time you come off cycle get blood work done when your test is still in rebound mode.

Youll appear to have low test.

Look around in the over 35 section, I remember something of this nature being discussed a while back.

Ive personally never heard of it being done, but logically it fits.[/quote]
the rebound idea was my idea to get on trt, have my test tank and then send in the test and they would be forced to speak to me about trt optioons.

I am really trying to lean all I can and go this route alone for as long as possible.
as far as low dose,watering down a research chem is not out of the question.
in theory it fits but I guess only way to know is to try.

also this can work for me when I am eventually on TRT because i can stockpile my test and use it for a cycle later and still feel up to par.

True, I would love to use human grade test.

Its like the difference between Smirnoff and grey goose.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
True, I would love to use human grade test.

Its like the difference between Smirnoff and grey goose. [/quote]

I could always stick to moonshine for the rest of my days just fine too.

[quote]Nich wrote:
Westclock wrote:
True, I would love to use human grade test.

Its like the difference between Smirnoff and grey goose.

I could always stick to moonshine for the rest of my days just fine too.

[/quote]

LOL I think I actually know what your talking about…haha this cracked me up for some reason. lol

DG

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Nich wrote:
Westclock wrote:
True, I would love to use human grade test.

Its like the difference between Smirnoff and grey goose.

I could always stick to moonshine for the rest of my days just fine too.

LOL I think I actually know what your talking about…haha this cracked me up for some reason. lol

DG[/quote]

glad its not one these jokes tha tonly I think is funny
those are dumb jokes.

Hey Nich,

You might want to combine 25mg Proviron with low dose AI. That way you take care of E2 and SHBG. It should enhance libido too.

It may be partly a dopamine issue too. KSman is your “go to” guy on this…

think i may lurk around on the over 35 board see what they say,I am sure this topic has been brought up there in detail

EDIT:
I am such a dumb ass

should have gone there first
found in the first post most the answers I was looking for
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_senior/estradiol_why_you_should_care

Keep in mind AI use causes UP regulation of the ER - basically your Estrogen receptors become more sensitive to less estrogen. So, like even steroids there will be short term benifits, but long term there is not as much benifit as you would think, and if you come off the AI then you will need to worry about the rebound effect.

It may actually be wiser to periodically use nolvadex instead.

The use of Proviron is basically HRT.

Consider just staying on a little bit of extra testosterone per week then to keep you test in high normal range.

Obviously if you are considering HPTA fuction, then the best approach is likely c the nolva. Consider also the nolva and the proviron actually alternated in cycles - say 1 week nolva, 1 week proviron.

Just thinking out loud with that one.

now instead of Proviron,which I have a hard time finding.
is there any other DHT derivatives that would be as helpful?

Just do anastrozole. Try .5mg/week and get E2 lab work on your own. Aim for E2=20pg/ml and not lower.

If you get 28 on .5mg, then increase dose like this 28/20 x 5 = .7mg. Take .75mg/wk.

There is nothing unhealthy about that E2 level. Some lean young guys are in that range.

Read up on anastrozole over-responders.

[quote]Nich wrote:
now instead of Proviron,which I have a hard time finding.
is there any other DHT derivatives that would be as helpful?
[/quote]

Masteron is the obvious one.

also consider aromasin

[quote]KSman wrote:
Just do anastrozole. Try .5mg/week and get E2 lab work on your own. Aim for E2=20pg/ml and not lower.

If you get 28 on .5mg, then increase dose like this 28/20 x 5 = .7mg. Take .75mg/wk.

There is nothing unhealthy about that E2 level. Some lean young guys are in that range.

Read up on anastrozole over-responders.[/quote]

Ihave been reading your posts alot in the over-35 forums after I started this one.

thank you for all your input and hard work over there its really helped me.

Prisoner Thank you as well.
I was asking because I know near nothing about these specific compounds so searching on these are in order.

thanks again guys.