T Nation

AI's Cause Boneloss?


#1

Check this out, guys. He just tweeted this…WTF?


#2

He had another guest on, Dr. Nick I believe, that said recent clinical studies have shown that once starting TRT you should wait at least a year for estrogen to level out on its own. He said that people jump on estrogen control drugs too soon and dont give their bodies a chance to respond to the new T levels. In the comments section of the podcast I asked Jay if he could provide info to the studies that were being discussed but he hasnt responded.

I appreciate all of the conversations on his podcast but I am left scratching my head a lot of the time.


E2 Crash with TT/FT Up. Why?
#3

I know right? This is a big deal, everyone pretty much uses an AI. It’s even in our sticky protocol. We need @KSman to see this and comment.


#4

Lowering E2 long term is dangerous. Its fairly well documented in women who use AI’s. Usually they are completely tanking their e2 and that’s where the problems come from.

I know I kept my e2 in the dirt for too long and ended up with knee issues from it. Still recovering. So definitely something to research if you have any second thoughts.

Also, not sure how true, but I did also notice my e2 has become more manageable now that I am well past my 1 year mark. I use no AI and actually don’t use anything for e2 control at all. (I eat a lot of broccoli, almost everyday though)


#5

Lowering E2 near E2=22pg/ml will not cause bone loss.

Women with cancer doing E2–>zero have bone loss.

This thread is stupid and is not helpful for the learning curve.

Higher T levels support the collagen matrix of the bones. Men with low-T have better bone health with TRT than their low-T peers.

I have been near E2=22pg/ml - 80 pmol/L for 12 years and my whole body bone scans are good and steady.


#6

What about the Dr from the podcast coming out saying that studies have shown (still waiting on citations) that waiting 12 months for estrogen to adjust itself is the best bet?


#7

A lot more people should give credence to this concept.


#8

This is still bullshit.

We have guys managing their E2 and aromatization. Those that don’t have well understood problems which can be avoided. If there was some magic process that would lead to reduced levels of aromatization, then the routine E2 labs and anastrozole dose corrections would take that in stride and we really do not see much of that happening.

What could happen is sustained elevated E2 can increase SHBG and more SHBG means less FT–>E2. Not a good outcome.

When a doctor has an opinion, it might be guided by getting guys in normal range, not E2 that is optimal for energy, mood, socialization, libido and sexual performance.