T Nation

Airplanes Buried in Iraq

From today’s WSJ Editorials – this actually follows on the heels of a report that came a few weeks ago that the Germans discovered some fully armed aircraft buried beneath the Berlin airport from WWII. I leave you to draw your own conclusions about what has been proved or disproved thus far…


MiGs in the Sand

They didn’t get much attention, but two events last week shed light on the continuing search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. David Kay, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector now leading the WMD search, told a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill that “solid progress” is being made. “We’re building a solid case that will stand,” he said after the briefing, “and we welcome international scrutiny of that case after we have the evidence assembled.”

At about the same time, coalition teams looking for WMD found dozens of Iraqi air force fighter jets buried beneath the sands at an airfield west of Baghdad. AP cites a Pentagon official who said the searchers noticed a pair of tail fins poking up in the sand. They turned out to belong to a Cold War-era MiG-25.

If it’s possible to hide 30-plus aircraft for several months with 150,000 troops on the lookout, secreting vials of poison gas or anthrax has to be a cinch. Search teams are unlikely to stumble upon BW or CW by chance. Mr. Kay’s comment that Iraqi scientists are “collaborating and cooperating” is encouraging, because such intelligence is the way we are likely to discover what Saddam Hussein was really up to.

One question, however, is whether some war critics will even believe such proof when they see it. After hearing Mr. Kay’s testimony, Senator Ted Kennedy rushed out to say that, “It’s looking more and more like a case of mass deception.” He was referring to President Bush, not Saddam. So much for waiting for the evidence.

Updated August 4, 2003

Anyone have an idea why you peeps in massachusetts vote for mr kennedy every year?

Back on topic, I still think they can hide the stuff. Yes it would be easy to bury, and until we get saddam or fully prove to the scientists that the baath’s are not going to rise again, they wont tell us where it’s at.

Real question though will be what will the UN do about other countries coming along those same lines, like iran or NK.

When it comes to mass deception, Teddy Kennedy has lots of personal experience. Not for nothing is he is not known as the Chappaquidick Chump.

There’s a dumb blonde joke about sand and hangars somewhere in there.

It doesn’t matter what they find, the evidence has to come first. They can’t attack & invade Iraq to get the proof they need to attack Iraq.

David Kay, now being a consultant in the private sector is getting paid a dumptruck full of cash for putting together a package of evidence. look for a big thick report by the end of the year- but whats the catch…

everyone knows Iraq did have weapons at some time, and did have a program. big deal. but were they an “imminent” threat? All evidence so far points to no.

now the words are “were devloping a program for WMDs”… huh?

certainly Saddam was not more of a threat than N Korea or any number of places.

related to this- why do you think Powell will not retain his position even if Dubya wins the next election?
word is Wolfowitz is going to get it- and won’t that be grand.

check out Bush’s executive order 13303 for a look at where the cash from sale if Iraqi oil is going. For the rebuilding of Iraq - fuckin snowballs chance.

and the fun continues…

‘Not for nothing is he is not’

We are waiting for troops to find the weapons of mass destruction that result in “a smoking gun that is a mushroom cloud” as advertised by the Bush administration. The “most lethal WMDs in the history of mankind” and all that, was what we were promised. Nook-u-lar weapons, as Bush would say. NUKES, that were an imminent threat, requiring a pre-emptive strike.

Not biological or chemical weapons that have become inert over time (they do not last forever).

Not a WMD “program” that “they were just waiting to re-start”.

Not some buried airplanes

lumpy and kuri,
Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock. It must be hard to turn on the television or your favorite website. I think you know what is coming. I’ll bet the information will be devastating to your little theories. I am going to enjoy watching you squirm when the obvious is confirmed. Are your excuses and lame rebuttals ready? I can hear them now. “The United States must have planted them.” “Halliburton paid for the weapons so they can make more money from oil.” “George Bush Senior bought the weapons so his son could plant them.” “Newt Gingrich contracted with a Saudi Arabian company to supply the weapons.” “The Supreme Court ruled that Iraq needed to be invaded.” “algore invented the aircraft carrier.” Sorry, getting carried away with in my mirth.
We are getting closer and I think you know it.
Did you catch the report that we have an entire WAREHOUSE full of information presented by scientists and ordinary citizens. Translating as rapidly and accurately as we can.
Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock.

Planes!! The bastards had planes? How dare they? You should kill at least 7 000 more Iraquis for that one. Imagine, MIG’s in the sand, what’s this world coming to?

M.Quebec – As a lawyer, I can guarantee you that the rules of evidence in a criminal trial are not applicable in the rest of life, and certainly are not applicable in international relations. A sovereign state has both the capacity and a right to act to defend its interests, irrespective of whether it can “prove” to the Quebecois, the French, or anyone else at the time it acts that its intelligence is correct. They act on the best intelligence they have, calculating the threat to interests and security vs. the probabilities of the intelligence being correct and the gravity of the action required. It’s not required by any body of law that they have “proof” in hand to act.

Lumpy – I’ve dealt with your contention that the WMD must be nuclear on a previous thread, so I’ll refer you to that answer.

Restless – Very amusing, and very much beside the point.

Kuri –

I guess you want to get into a discussion of what constitutes an “imminent” threat. That’s entirely dependent upon the nature of the threat. Saddam’s possession of the WMD, which, don’t forget, constituted violations both of the treaty that ended the Gulf War and various U.N. resolutions, posed an imminent threat the the stability of the Middle East, which is strategically very important to U.S. interests. Aside from that, because of the portability and because of the nature of Saddam’s regime, his mere possession of WMD could definitely have posed an imminent threat of dissemination to those who would have actually used them in the U.S.

Now, to Korea, that is a different matter entirely, mostly because of the positions of our allies, S. Korea and Japan, as well as because of the Chinese. Bush has recently forced N.Korea to accept multi-lateral discussions, which was a major concession point and a huge U.S. victory in terms of the power of the negotiations. Check out the discussion of such on www.volokh.com, and go to the links provided. It’s all very fascinating.

BTW, I leave on vacation in an hour, so don’t expect any more replies to your retorts for a week or so. Ciao.

yeah Saddam’s WMDs posed such a threat to the “stability” of the middle east that old enemies Iran didn’t seem to be worried. You’d think they would have cheered the US coming and and deposing the regime right? Guess not.

Everyone in the middle east knows who the REAL threat is to any sort of stability for the region.

I’m not saying that Iraq or Iran are the good guys. Far from it.

Why is it even news that they found some MIGs? They used them in the '91 war.

That the MIGs are “breaking news” shows how ridiculous the whole situation is.

want some news? how fucked up is Afghanistan now? How long until Iraq is at least as bad as that?

Once again we see that the high-holy talk of “liberating & spreading 'Merican way of life” is just bullshit. the politicians don’t and won’t do what it takes to rebuild these countries.

Wasn’t it dubya who said while campaigning that we “wasn’t interested in nation building”?

To assert American military dominance on the planet and ensure economic supremecy is what is happening.

back to the ass thread…