T Nation

Age 22 - TRT 207ng/dl


#1

This is my first post as I am brand new to the forums- so here it goes. I am a 22 year old male that was diagnosed by my general physician with low testosterone 207ng/dl. Looking to improve my quality of life he prescribed me with androgel 5g once daily.

Going home and quickly realizing what a worthless product this was I returned to my doctor and requested he start me on Enanthate 200mg bi-monthly injections(I do the IM myself at home). Having talked it over with my parents they decided I should see a Endocrinologist to see if he could find what was actually wrong physically with me.

Immediately upon walking in he talked with me having skepticism, speaking of bodybuilders and Testosterone abuse. He ignored all my previous blood work and wanted to just talk with me. He told me to stop taking the shots right away so they could find the source of the problem.

Being about 7 injections(14 weeks) in, I was a little skeptical wondering what kind of crash I would feel. He said I should not be concerned with how I feel if my testosterone was low before, it would be no different.

Being a student in college and about 4 hours away from my doctor I explained to him that it would be hard for me make it back frequently, he wouldn't be able to check up on me frequently. He assured me and sent me for another blood test - being 3 weeks out since my last injection, he thought that most of the test E should have left my body.

Upon returning to school the next six weeks of my life were ruined, absolutely no libido, no energy, felt dead. After the Endo got my results back he saw I had a elevated prolactin and ordered me an MRI. He wanted to see if I had a tumor on my pituitary gland. The MRI came back negative and he prescribed me Bromocriptin without another office visit?

Before I started taking the medication I did some further research and realized there is a relation to taking exogenous test and a elevated prolactin so I requested another blood test. The test results came back like I predicted.

testosterone 221 low
prolactin 11.7 normal (2.1-17.7)
FSH 1.2 low (1.4-18.1)
LH 0.4 low (1.5-9.3)

Not being able to carry out day to day chores without feeling drained I have stepped back on Test E 200mg bi-monthly.I am worried that the Endo does not have my best interest in mind and I will most likely be returning to my general physician. I want to step up to 250mg weekly injections with a prescription for a AI along with HCG.

Let me know what you guys think about the situation I really appreciate any feedback in advance. I also might be experiencing a little nipple puffiness and light itching(could just be paranoid)and I am getting some light bacne.


#2

I personally think 250mg test-e + HCG would result in a supraphysiological level of testosterone. HRT means replacement, no need to go for the extra mile. I think with your proposed dosage, your test level is going to be over 1000ng. Since you are currently experiencing some side effects, I would actually recommend dropping back your dosage to 150 mg, bi-weekly injections for more stable level. Definitely use HCG, you don't want to be infertile at 22 yo.

One doctor may want to focus on quiality of life, and give you 250mg/week + HCG + AI
one doctor may want to keep in the the middle range, and recommend 100mg/week + HCG without AI

Now you realise that doing HRT right now is just quick fix. You still don't know the cause of your problem.
The normal procedure for your case would be
1. use serm
2. use HCG
3. use testosterone replacement


#3

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#4

I think it was irresponsible to not even try the get patches.. do you want a better quality of life, or do you just want to inject anabolic steroids? The latter seems to have been the case.

I am sorry about your experience with your endocrinologist.. it is a really sad state of a profession these days and needs some serious updating.. less governing by law and more by what is actually needed.

As BBB stated, it would have been best to try to find the source before any tampering.. but you also were on Test'rone injections when you went to the endo.. were you just being greedy - expecting even more dosing increases? Hmm.. i think you may have at least in the back of your mind.

Now you claim you want 250mg/wk and HCG..? Gooood luck with that. You have gone around in a big circle, when the first prescription may well have worked perfectly for you (being used to injections now it likely wouldnt). You are being greedy, there are no two ways around it i'm afraid.. your levels at 100mg/wk will be more than ample.. get bloods with your regular doc, assess your subjective view of libido and mood and energy.. and cross reference the two.

If you want HCG then i recommend you speak to the doc about that, as it is a worthwhile addition to keep the testes secreting test'rone - increasing baseline levels further also.

As for the puffy nipples, then i would look at adding 0.25mg arimidex/anastrazole a day - the doc MAY prescribe this, although it is very rare as they don't see it as indicated often enough. Look at your estrogen and prolactin levels and argue that blocking the aromatase enzyme will reduce both of those levels.

If you dont know why or how - i suggest you look it up if you want to convince the medical professions 9who clearly know it all)

Brook.


#5

wow great feedback! I just woke up and I am sorting my way through it. I know there is no define amount but is there any range for how long before I may become infertile. Eight injections in or so with no SERM or HCG, I am a little worried (do I need to quickly schedule a appointment with my general physician and try to get these prescriptions, or get the run around with the Endo who just wants me to come off.)


#6

Bushido, wouldn't an insulin needle not be long enough to perform any kind of IM injection?


#7

Test.


#8

First off Brook thanks for your response! Alrighty I wanted to address a couple of things, when I went to my general physician and the concern for low test came up he didn't mention anything about patches. I never even knew patches existed (my own fault for improper research), and I was wondering how effective they are? I have no problem with IM injections and read it's the best way to go (compared to androgel), so that's what I did.

I defiantly am seeking a better quality of life; a young man like me shouldn't have any problem with low test, whether it be libido, drive, energy, or anything that comes along with test. I wished that my general physician would have tried to have found the problem before he prescribed me the injections, I was under the impressions test was the cure for low test, and so was he.

As far as the increased dosage I was mainly just looking to keep the injections weekly so the levels weren't a roller coaster. I see now that number was way too high I am aiming more at 100mg adminstered weekly, twice a week. I would all but hope a doctor would prescribe me HCG to avoid infertility but, I guess we will see. Thank you for the recommendations about how to request HCG and arimidex, I have an endo appointment Friday and hope to be prepared with a wealth of knowledge. If he seems to not be ready to deal with my circumstances I will be switching back to my general physician.


#9

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#10

jc7 I feel your pain. You have few years on me and I went/am still going through the same process. Are you stating bi-weekly as once every two weeks, 2x a week, or weekly? My advice to you is to not try and push for more than 200mg/wk. For someone our age who has no TRT history a 200mg dose is plenty. Over time the dose can be raised but give the doctor time to adjust and become comfortable with you.

And make sure to explain your situation to the doc (you are a young guy who should not suffer these symptoms etc), they will be more liberal with your dose.


#11

Game Time, Bi-monthly is one shot every two weeks. It's nice to know there is other young men out there with the same problems.


#12

Were few and far between but it does occur with some young guys. Goodluck!


#13

As a Brit, i consider 'bi-weekly' to mean 'twice a week', as i use the word 'fortnightly' to describe 'every two weeks'..

Just so if anyone notices that i write "..use x bi-weekly" they don't think i mean once every two weeks..


#14

Patches are very expensive and gels are expensive too.

TRT doses of T ester can be injected with insulin syringes. With injections twice a week or EOD, the small volumes work with .5" needles for IM in the vastus lateralis if one is not fat there. It has also been shown that SC TRT injections work better than IM, so one can SC inject with .5" needles. Use 0.5ml [50iu] #26 0.5"

I wonder if all of this was gear induced.

With a younger guy, hCG can restore T levels and maintain the heath of the testes and reasonable sperm counts.

HRT issues are best dealt with on the over 35 lifter BB.

Do not do TRT without hCG.

Monitor serum E2 and [optimally] use anastrozole to get close to E2=22pg/ml

Cabergoline dose should be 0.5mg/week. You do not need high doses [danger].


#15

You mean bi-monthly.


#16

I think I might have found the problem:

A varicocele can reduce hormonal production as well.
Varicocele is an abnormal enlargement of the vein that is in the scrotum draining the testicles. The testicular blood vessels originate in the abdomen and course down through the inguinal canal as part of the spermatic cord on their way to the testis. Up-ward flow of blood in the veins is ensured by small one-way valves that prevent backflow. Defective valves, or compression of the vein by a nearby structure, can cause dilatation of the veins near the testis, leading to the formation of a varicocele


#17

Thats lovely!

Buuut.. what does it have to do with you may i ask? Has this been diagnosed by some sort of procedure, or god forbid you simply read about it on-line just now?


#18

I was diagnosed with Varicocele a long time ago, pediatrician said it wasn't a big deal - but I could have surgery if I wanted. Stumbled over some online research linking it to possible hormone problems, planning on asking the Doctor about this Friday.


#19

Well then, that IS good news! Well remembered... and a terrible miscalculation by your own PCP, no?


#20

The Endo actually never took a look at my testies which I thought was very odd...