T Nation

Against HRT, Natural Alternatives?

Hi gentleman,
I am new , from UK, 43 6’5 320lb, last tested 2 years ago have low T(near end of bottom of range) low libido (wank daily but have only had sex with wife once in one year). My testes have been on the small side most of my adult life (probably due to excessive wanking as a teen and never quite recovering)
Despite all risks of low T, I would never go on TRT, I would rather seek natural alternatives.

The way I understand things is that total T is not as important as free T, which is the T that is available to act on the cells of the body and brain to libido /improve sexual performance.

So rather than going on TRT injections for life and juggling trying to balance hormones with frequent blood tests, constantly taking medication to control E2 etc;
I would rather accept and live with T of 200 and trying to raise it naturally, by naturally minimising aromatization, by strictly eliminating all abdominal fat.

I would like to know natural foods that can help with aromatase.

Any one knows whether there is a way to “wash” E2 out of body. Would green tea help?

I know that nettle root can work in theoretically increasing free T, I would like to know other more natural everyday foods that do the same.

If Prolactin affect libido, should reducing it be the main focus in raising libido, if so does anyone know any natural foods for reducing it?

Does anyone know any natural foods for increasing testicle size?

I strongly believe that we low T guys should focus on 3 things, increasing free T, minimising aromatase and creating conditions for testicles to produce T at optimal level, i.e eating right (adequate chlorestal and fats) supplements (e.g zinc) and exercise.

We most remember that low T is becoming more common mainly because of E mimicking plastics all around us, so avoiding consuming chemical or plastic contaminated food and drink, using natural toothpastes, eating organically, bathing with natural soaps could help with T production.
I personally do not trust microwaved food.
We need to ensure we do not overheat our testicles so wearing loose trousers and briefs and seating with our legs adequately open would help.

I am keen to hear your opinions.

Thanks for your time

Tony

This scares me:
So rather than going on TRT injections for life and juggling trying to balance hormones with frequent blood tests, constantly taking medication to control E2 etc;
I would rather accept and live with T of 200 and trying to raise it naturally, by naturally minimising aromatization, by strictly eliminating all abdominal fat.

You sir (in my opinion) need to do more research on HRT. You’re 43, and your body has shut down.
Are you interested in osteoporosis, Alzheimer’s, hardened arteries, and a heart that won’t survive stress?

Well then step right up, and swim in the river denial. Along with the rest of the men that will eventually, chemically, turn into their wives without the least amount of thought.

I SO disagree. You reference not chemically altering your body, but then you mention “naturally” changing your chemistry. I’m not trying to be an ass, I just can’t understand why you wouldn’t want the absolute best quality of life available for both you and your wife. Yes your wife too.

Here’s the truth, if you don’t start on HRT/TRT you’ll quite possibly be going around in circles the rest of your life chemically. With a decent doc, it may only last six months to get your dosing dialed in, and then you can “play newlyweds” with the wife every day again, or even twice a day. And you won’t get a bad heart, and a bad brain, and porous bones, and everything else I previously didn’t mention.
Please reconsider as your life DOES depend on it.

KNB

Sorry to hear about your condition. I to prefer the natural way. About the advice I can give you is to seek out a Holistic Doctor, or inquire at some vitamin stores.

Good luck and stay strong.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

For Bushy:

If one goes on HRT “for life” ostensibly, and then something happens where one has to abandon it after being on it for years (i.e., run out of money, lose medical insurance, move to a country where the docs and environment are hostile to it, etc.) then what happens to one’s hormonal state? Does it revert back to the low T condition that was suffered initially? Or is there a more serious “crash”?

From all I’ve read, I’m in favor of HRT/TRT when one’s T jumps in the toilet. But, I can see how a commitment to a lifetime of injectable meds can concern some people.

I’ve never seen any material showing that natural methods can move T up more than a few points. Test replacement is the way to go if you need to go from borderline low up a couple hundred points.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Apart from the concern about finding out that one day you may not get access to the T, It is not known what the long tern consequences may be.

My main point is that I would rather see how high I can get by doing things naturally before taking such a life-changing step of going on TRT.

I do not know any part of my post that could be considered judgemental, so I do not know why you, Bushi are being so abusive.

If you cannot reply in a polit way, then I am not interested in anything you have to say.

Tony

Hey, usownt. I see that you personally don’t trust microwaved food. But if you eat it with your aluminum foil hat on, it should be OK. But make sure it’s organic, and don’t get that foil too close to the oven.

[quote]usownt wrote:
Hi gentleman,
I am new , from UK, 43 6’5 320lb, last tested 2 years ago have low T(near end of bottom of range) low libido (wank daily but have only had sex with wife once in one year). My testes have been on the small side most of my adult life (probably due to excessive wanking as a teen and never quite recovering)
Despite all risks of low T, I would never go on TRT, I would rather seek natural alternatives.

The way I understand things is that total T is not as important as free T, which is the T that is available to act on the cells of the body and brain to libido /improve sexual performance.

So rather than going on TRT injections for life and juggling trying to balance hormones with frequent blood tests, constantly taking medication to control E2 etc;
I would rather accept and live with T of 200 and trying to raise it naturally, by naturally minimising aromatization, by strictly eliminating all abdominal fat.

I would like to know natural foods that can help with aromatase.

Any one knows whether there is a way to “wash” E2 out of body. Would green tea help?

I know that nettle root can work in theoretically increasing free T, I would like to know other more natural everyday foods that do the same.

If Prolactin affect libido, should reducing it be the main focus in raising libido, if so does anyone know any natural foods for reducing it?

Does anyone know any natural foods for increasing testicle size?

I strongly believe that we low T guys should focus on 3 things, increasing free T, minimising aromatase and creating conditions for testicles to produce T at optimal level, i.e eating right (adequate chlorestal and fats) supplements (e.g zinc) and exercise.

We most remember that low T is becoming more common mainly because of E mimicking plastics all around us, so avoiding consuming chemical or plastic contaminated food and drink, using natural toothpastes, eating organically, bathing with natural soaps could help with T production.
I personally do not trust microwaved food.
We need to ensure we do not overheat our testicles so wearing loose trousers and briefs and seating with our legs adequately open would help.

I am keen to hear your opinions.

Thanks for your time

Tony

[/quote]

I would love to take something that would bring my levels back up, but sadly there isn’t really anything that would do this for me at least.

I have tried so many supplements, potions, and herbs that I should become a naturalist myself. I will not sit here and say they don’t work for some people because they mite. I just do not think they will help anyone that really needs HRT. I know they won’t.

I understand why you want to go the route you have decided to take, but to say you would rather live low T of 200 is telling me you are felling that bad yet. Because if you felt like me or a lot of other men I know of you wouldn’t be saying that. Trust me.

I know our world effects us all, but it is not the source of everything thats wrong with us. Sometimes the wise thing to do is open our minds and learn from others instead of closing our minds and making ourselves and everyone else that cares for us feeling bad and misriable. i am not telling you your wrong about looking for a natural way to solve this problem. We all need to look for the best thing we can live with and that will benifit us. But I am suggesting to you don’t be close minded. by the way most of the food I have always eaten has been grown by me or my family. I hunt and all my meat is from the wild or from ranchers I know. I bath with natural soap and probably do all the things you have said and maybe more. I still had problems with my hormones. So you see it isn’t always that cut and dry.

Good Luck usownt

[quote]usownt wrote:
Hi gentleman,
I am new , from UK, 43 6’5 320lb, last tested 2 years ago have low T(near end of bottom of range) low libido (wank daily but have only had sex with wife once in one year). My testes have been on the small side most of my adult life (probably due to excessive wanking as a teen and never quite recovering)
Despite all risks of low T, I would never go on TRT, I would rather seek natural alternatives.

The way I understand things is that total T is not as important as free T, which is the T that is available to act on the cells of the body and brain to libido /improve sexual performance.

So rather than going on TRT injections for life and juggling trying to balance hormones with frequent blood tests, constantly taking medication to control E2 etc;
I would rather accept and live with T of 200 and trying to raise it naturally, by naturally minimising aromatization, by strictly eliminating all abdominal fat.

I would like to know natural foods that can help with aromatase.

Any one knows whether there is a way to “wash” E2 out of body. Would green tea help?

I know that nettle root can work in theoretically increasing free T, I would like to know other more natural everyday foods that do the same.

If Prolactin affect libido, should reducing it be the main focus in raising libido, if so does anyone know any natural foods for reducing it?

Does anyone know any natural foods for increasing testicle size?

I strongly believe that we low T guys should focus on 3 things, increasing free T, minimising aromatase and creating conditions for testicles to produce T at optimal level, i.e eating right (adequate chlorestal and fats) supplements (e.g zinc) and exercise.

We most remember that low T is becoming more common mainly because of E mimicking plastics all around us, so avoiding consuming chemical or plastic contaminated food and drink, using natural toothpastes, eating organically, bathing with natural soaps could help with T production.
I personally do not trust microwaved food.
We need to ensure we do not overheat our testicles so wearing loose trousers and briefs and seating with our legs adequately open would help.

I am keen to hear your opinions.

Thanks for your time

Tony

[/quote]

If you want to be natural, then the first thing you need to do is lose the fat by eating right and exercising. At this point, the etiology of your obesity and estrogen dominance is irrelevant. You have let yourself go.

Google can help you find answers, as would searching here and on other forums that pertain to male anti-aging and men’s health.

Good luck.

Your 43, you’ve reached your peak natural T already. I think you should look into Yo Mamma’s response then go from there.

Theres nothing wrong with being natural but your reasoning is flawed. Theres a difference between wanting to maximize your T, and having low T and feeling bad about it every day. As for being scared of not getting it in the future, maybe a little T will help you lose that fear also. Do you not eat for fear that you won’t be able to get food in the future too?

Besides that it’s a drug but somebody mentioned Novadex on here you can do a search on that, it’s legal from what I hear. They seem to love some herb called tribulus, supplements Alpha Male, zma. Green Tea supposedly lowers it a little, and surprisingly smoking can raise it. Lot’s of sleep is good for raising it, and here is a website that goes into details about diet and its effect. http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

As far as organic this and that, I like the idea and I try if I can but not for T reasons. The polution in the air will cancel out most of the effects. Maybe you can get form 200 to 201. Last but not least how often did you get checked? if You only got checked once you have no clue as to what your T levels are.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Wow. Propaganda in the media has succeeded when men experiencing the symptoms of decreased hormones refuse to get treatment for it because they don’t want to be “unnatural”.

This is, of course, while logging onto a computer in an air conditioned house they drove to in that gas guzzling SUV while eating food they nuked in 30 seconds that came from animals that were cloned and gene spliced all while complaining that they have gained too much weight by watching 30+ hours of tv a week.


Give the man a break, boys. If he wants to be Mister Natural, let it be. I prefer the one from my old Zap Comics, popular in the seventies.

Hey USOWNT,

The following are helpful:

  1. Anabolic Diet to Raise T (Use search on this site and look for “My experience on the Anabolic Diet” - 300+ pages

  2. Lose excess fat. The leaner you are the better your hormonal balance.

  3. Avoid flax and sesame seeds / lignans. They decrease T levels and raise SHBG.

  4. It is good to determine the source of your problem. Is it a production problem? i.e: Is your total T level decent or not? If total T is decent, but free T and Bioavailable T is low; that means that you have elevated estradiol and/or SHBG (Sexual Hormone Binding Globulin). Estradiol can be easily controlled with Arimidex (pill form) /ADEX (liquid form). SHBG is more difficult to decrease so hopefully that is not your issue. If total T is low, then you need HRT if you want to address it.

Thanks for all your responses, 1st off,I do not know my exact T level, but I hope it is more than 200- I think I need to go to my doc and get my T tested so that I can know where I am starting from. I was tested once 2yrs ago; I could not remember the exact numbers but it was near bottom of range. The bottom of range was approx 2.7 and my T was like 2.9
I just used the 200 value as an example to make a point.

I am overweight by approx 70lb, so as Bigdawg, Blackcat and Airtruth suggested, I need to get my weight down and see if it helps.
Is there any suggestions for targetting abdominal fat specifically?

Bushy, Thanks for your message, I understand how it may appear to be highhanded of me, to come and appear to be preaching to people who has greater knowledge than, me. In fact I suppose Iam a little guilty on that count, But I wanted to let people know that they may be alternatives, as I notice that there is little advice about encouraging people to research all options b4 going for TRT and it seems that Docs dont seem to give this advise either.

YoMomma, I do not know what to make of your post about the microwave are you serious or are you mocking me?
May be it is just my mental fogginess kicking in :slight_smile:

Thanks everyone for your responses and Bushy thanks for the time you have taken to clarify your position.

Tony

[quote]usownt wrote:

Is there any suggestions for targetting abdominal fat specifically?

[/quote]

Yes. Stop worrying about “targeting abdominal fat” and begin realizing that if you are 70+lbs overweight, your entire body is fat. You should be “targeting full body fat loss”.

There is nothing more ridiculous than seeing someone who is extremely overweight running to the gym to ONLY do ab exercises and jump on the treadmill…before they quit after just two weeks and claim they’ve tried everything and can’t lose weight.

What you are attempting to do, a lifestyle change, is going to take full commitment and a replacement of every bad habit that got you into that condition. The fact that you are even most focused on “belly fat” shows you may not understand just how much effort this will take.

Do you even lift weights currently?

[quote]usownt wrote:

YoMomma, I do not know what to make of your post about the microwave are you serious or are you mocking me?

[/quote]

Nothing personal, Tony. Very few know what to make of me. I’m just tripping Daisy, so don’t get Blown Away.

Something else I don’t understand is why you masturbate everyday but you aren’t having sex with your wife? If you can masturbate you can have sex. If you have the desire to masturbate you have the desire for sex, so why the heck aren’t you spending that quality time with your wife? I can’t imagine that she’s terribly happy with this arraingment either, so maybe a lot of the problems you are facing in life right now aren’t necessarily due to low test?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.