T Nation

After Starting Strength


#1

After stalling a few times on all the lifts on Starting Strength - Advanced Novice Program, I've decided to move on and change to another program.

FYI, my lifts at which I stalled (BW - 62.5kg/138lbs)

Low Bar Squats - 130kg/ 287lbs for 3
Deadlift - 145kg/ 319lbs for 2
Bench Press - 82.5kg/ 182lbs for 5
OHP - 52.5kg/ 115lbs for 3

Any suggestion of programs that I should change to? I've looked at Madcow and Texas Method, but they are more for progression of strength. And I would like follow a hypertrophy & strength program.

Or should I just follow a strength based program to increase my strength, meanwhile increasing my calories to get size?

I'll appreciate any help and suggestions! Thank you.


#2

Do 5/3/1 BBB while eating well and you will put on a good amount of size and strength.


#3

Just gaining some weight can help quite a lot. If you have not reset your lifts yet, try that and give SS another round or two to get all you can out of LP while eating more. Then do what he said ^.


#4

I love 5/3/1 w/ BBB.

You can also look into kingbeef’s thread (sure someone has it in favourites) for a BB split.

thank you for sticking with a proven program. Your lifts are decent for your BW. But yeah, as mentioned. More food if you want to get bigger.


#5

[quote]cqcqcq wrote:
And I would like follow a hypertrophy & strength program.

Or should I just follow a strength based program to increase my strength, meanwhile increasing my calories to get size? [/quote]

As was suggested, 5/3/1 Boring But Big would be a great fit for your goals… but

You haven’t gained a single pound in at least four months. That means you are not, and have not, been eating enough. You must fix your eating habits or you’ll see zero size gains.


#6

[quote]pcdude wrote:
Just gaining some weight can help quite a lot. If you have not reset your lifts yet, try that and give SS another round or two to get all you can out of LP while eating more. Then do what he said ^.[/quote]

I am curious why he should try to get all he can out of LP through SS rather than 5/3/1. Isn’t SS only supposed to be run for a few months?


#7

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]pcdude wrote:
Just gaining some weight can help quite a lot. If you have not reset your lifts yet, try that and give SS another round or two to get all you can out of LP while eating more. Then do what he said ^.[/quote]

I am curious why he should try to get all he can out of LP through SS rather than 5/3/1. Isn’t SS only supposed to be run for a few months?[/quote]
SS may get him increases faster than 5/3/1, since he would be increasing the weight every workout. That assumes that his weight is holding him back, and more gains can be made if he increases his calories. SS should be run as long as you are still making gains on it. Some run it for just a few months, some can benefit by running it longer. There is nothing wrong with starting 5/3/1 now, however.


#8

Yeah, you could start 5/3/1 BBB as a noob if you wanted. SS can be anywhere from 3 months to 8 months depending on the age and lifting experience of the trainee. Basically, you can do SS until you have exhausted it. In this case, I don’t think he has exhausted it because he isn’t eating enough.

I’m in agreement here that OP should eat more, no matter which program he opts for. If he does start eating more, he could probably squeeze another month or so out of SS if he desired. But going to 5/3/1 BBB right now is also a great option… as long as the “eating more” part is dutifully attended.


#9

[quote]pcdude wrote:
SS may get him increases faster than 5/3/1, since he would be increasing the weight every workout. That assumes that his weight is holding him back, and more gains can be made if he increases his calories. SS should be run as long as you are still making gains on it. Some run it for just a few months, some can benefit by running it longer. There is nothing wrong with starting 5/3/1 now, however.[/quote]

You should be increasing the weight every workout as well on 5/3/1 from my understanding/experience with the program. The weight for each movement increases each week in order to match the percentages for the 5/3/1 work, and because of the “as many reps as possible” nature of the final sets, I find that trainees tend to get stronger workout by workout with that method.

As much as I liked my time with abbreviated training, if I had to do it all over again, I would have started 5/3/1 much earlier in my training.


#10

Hi all, thks for your replies. I’ve increased ard 7 kg since I started SS and I ran it for abt 8 months. Should I continue to increase calories and continue SS? But all my lifts are really tough now, I’m practically grinding every reps of my working sets, and still cannot get 3x5.

Speaking of calories, is there any method of estimating the calories of your meal by looking at them? Sometimes having meals outside at maybe cafeterias, it is really unsightly to pick out your food and weigh them on the digital scale.

Seems like 5/3/1 BBB is a very popular program. I’m just puzzled, why not Madcow/TM since it increases load weekly instead of monthly like 5/3/1? Please enlighten me. Thank you guys alot for the advice. Really appreciate them.


#11

How have you been doing SS for eights months and your lifts are so low? You should have been hitting those numbers a long time ago.

As Chris Colucci said you need to eat a lot more! You should be able to run Starting Strength a for a lot longer as long as you eat and put some weight on.

How tall are you?


#12

[quote]cqcqcq wrote:
Seems like 5/3/1 BBB is a very popular program. I’m just puzzled, why not Madcow/TM since it increases load weekly instead of monthly like 5/3/1? Please enlighten me. Thank you guys alot for the advice. Really appreciate them.

[/quote]

You do increase the load weekly with 5/3/1. On the first week, you are lifting 85% of your training max, the second week 90%, and the third week 95% (for the final set on each day). If you had a 300lb squat for a training max, this would mean squatting 255 week 1, 270 week 2, and 285 week 3. You’re increasing the load 15lbs each week in this scenario. Additionally, your assistance work load can increase during this time as well.


#13

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]cqcqcq wrote:
Seems like 5/3/1 BBB is a very popular program. I’m just puzzled, why not Madcow/TM since it increases load weekly instead of monthly like 5/3/1? Please enlighten me. Thank you guys alot for the advice. Really appreciate them.

[/quote]

You do increase the load weekly with 5/3/1. On the first week, you are lifting 85% of your training max, the second week 90%, and the third week 95% (for the final set on each day). If you had a 300lb squat for a training max, this would mean squatting 255 week 1, 270 week 2, and 285 week 3. You’re increasing the load 15lbs each week in this scenario. Additionally, your assistance work load can increase during this time as well.[/quote]

You’re not increasing the weight every week in 5/3/1. The next cycle you would do 263, 279 and 295.


#14

[quote]Patch Adams wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]cqcqcq wrote:
Seems like 5/3/1 BBB is a very popular program. I’m just puzzled, why not Madcow/TM since it increases load weekly instead of monthly like 5/3/1? Please enlighten me. Thank you guys alot for the advice. Really appreciate them.

[/quote]

You do increase the load weekly with 5/3/1. On the first week, you are lifting 85% of your training max, the second week 90%, and the third week 95% (for the final set on each day). If you had a 300lb squat for a training max, this would mean squatting 255 week 1, 270 week 2, and 285 week 3. You’re increasing the load 15lbs each week in this scenario. Additionally, your assistance work load can increase during this time as well.[/quote]

You’re not increasing the weight every week in 5/3/1. The next cycle you would do 263, 279 and 295.

[/quote]

In the example I just posted above, each week you increased the weight you are squatting by 15lbs. Would you not consider that to be an increase of weight?


#15

It’s increasing every week in that cycle but then the weight goes down the next cycle.

The example you gave you would do 255 - 270 - 285 - Deload - 263 - 279 -295. That’s not increasing the weight every week…


#16

I feel we will have to agree to disagree.


#17

[quote]cqcqcq wrote:
Hi all, thks for your replies. I’ve increased ard 7 kg since I started SS and I ran it for abt 8 months. Should I continue to increase calories and continue SS? But all my lifts are really tough now, I’m practically grinding every reps of my working sets, and still cannot get 3x5. [/quote]
7kg in 8 months is not a lot given what you weigh. Increasing your weight will make the lifts easier, I guarantee you. You can literally eat yourself to a bigger bench press.

[quote]
Speaking of calories, is there any method of estimating the calories of your meal by looking at them? Sometimes having meals outside at maybe cafeterias, it is really unsightly to pick out your food and weigh them on the digital scale. [/quote]
You are overthinking it. Weighing your food and counting every calorie can be useful to get a baseline for your average daily intake, but you cannot do it long term. If you just keep eating what you are now, but force yourself to eat an extra 500 calories a day you should be good. 500 calories is like a couple of extra glasses of milk a day and a few globs of peanut butter, or an extra protein shake or two. The key is that you must force yourself to do this even if you think you are full. Weigh yourself weekly, and if you are not seeing increases eat more and repeat until you start to gain.

[quote]
Seems like 5/3/1 BBB is a very popular program. I’m just puzzled, why not Madcow/TM since it increases load weekly instead of monthly like 5/3/1? Please enlighten me. Thank you guys alot for the advice. Really appreciate them. [/quote]
Madcow and TM will work as well, if you follow the programs. Actually most any decent program will work as long as you put in the effort. 5/3/1 is popular because it is very flexible in that you can pick any assistance work as long as you follow the basic template for the major lifts. Therefore, it tends to be a program that you can follow much longer than others.


#18

[quote]Patch Adams wrote:
It’s increasing every week in that cycle but then the weight goes down the next cycle.

The example you gave you would do 255 - 270 - 285 - Deload - 263 - 279 -295. That’s not increasing the weight every week…[/quote]

He said increasing the weight weekly, not the PR… yes, MC and TM are more aggressive, with the good and the bad that comes with it (probably more bad in the case of someone that doesn’t eat enough)

OP do any of the programs mentioned here: stick w/ SS, MC/TM/GSLP, 531, WS4SB, whatever… just eat a lot more.


#19

I don’t know what’s so hard to understand. You don’t increase the weight every week on 5/3/1. I’m not saying this is a bad thing (far from) but it is a fact.

Anyway none of this matters to the OP. The program he does is not that important. He needs to eat a lot more and his lifts will start going up.


#20

[quote]Patch Adams wrote:
I don’t know what’s so hard to understand. You don’t increase the weight every week on 5/3/1. I’m not saying this is a bad thing (far from) but it is a fact.

[/quote]

Again, I feel as though we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

In the example you provided, the only time the trainee isn’t increasing weight from the previous week is the deload. Otherwise, the weight is always heavier the next week compared to the previous. I see this as increasing the weight each week whereas you do not. I would say our differences are purely philosophical, as we agree on all the data points and simply reach different conclusions.