After 10 Years, I'm Cycling Again. Looking for Advice

Pharma / TRT
1

*This is a big detailed post - hopefully someone in the know out there has the time or patience to read it and provide feedback.

Hello Everyone - thanks for such a comprehensive site, a real wealth of information. Information I probably should have read before I started a test e cycle.

You see I have cycled many years ago when I was young (twenties) and lean (the first time you could see my rib cage). Just bought some oil based stuff from a Gym junkie mate; no PCT, no real nutrition other than lots of chicken and rice and 250mg twice a week until the vials ran out. It worked well enough, I bulked up nicely.

I’m now 36 years old, 178cm, 95KG (210lb) and up there in body fat - I’m not sure exactly but it would have to be at least 20%. Up until recently, I had not worked out properly in years. I go hiking and snowboarding sporadically and apart from working in the garden and walking up and down stairs at work – that was my exercise for many years. Smashing beers every day and eating like a king (I love to cook) does not help either.

The idea I had in my head before I began this cycle was to use the cycle to get me motivated. Even a placebo at first. Quit smoking, reduce my drinking and get moving. I figured If I got into a good routine, built some strength and started losing weight – it would be a good start in the right direction.

I’ve now done a lot of research, which began out of interest, AFTER I started the cycle – in actual fact I was planning the next one. I mean, I’m reading day and night – if I’m not working out or at work or eating, I’m reading. This is how it has occurred to me that perhaps I should have waited until I dropped all this fat naturally and then started a cycle. What’s done is done – and call me stupid, but I’m not stopping now. (Unless I experience bad sides)

What I would like is some good hard feedback into my plan. I’m committed to losing body fat to a point where I don’t have a belly. I’m not looking to compete in body building competitions. Just want to be strong, fit and look good before I turn 40. I’m using all the tools I have at my disposal to increase my advantage in doing so.

Diet
I know how to cook and it has probably slowly worked to my detriment over the years. That and a consistent intake of alcohol. I’ve cut out booze on Monday – Wednesday, reduced it on Thursday and Sunday. May remove some other days too if I don’t see results. I love a beer – I’m trying to find a reasonable middle ground that I can carry on in between cycles over the next year or so and beyond.

On a daily basis, I consume something like following across 6 meals. The roo could be swapped out with beef or lamb, chicken with fish. I might have a protein bar rather than peanut butter and perhaps the avocado might be swapped for sardines. Essentially I have protein and a little carbs if possible before I work out and immediately after.

Glass of orange/apple/mango juice
3 Fish oil tablets
1000mg Vitamin C
Yoghurt & Muesli, chia, linseed
2 Boiled Eggs
30 Almonds
1/2 Avocado
2 Slices Wholemeal
Fried Chicken Breast 160g
1 Cup Broccoli
1 Cup Cauliflower
1 Cup brown Rice, Cauliflower, broad beans, chick peas
Kangaroo 300g
Peanut butter and 1/3 whole meal flat bread
Lots of water

Exercise
2-3 times a day, 6 Days a week. Sometimes I omit walking weather depending.
Day – Morning, Noon, Afternoon
Monday – Swimming, Walking, Weights
Tuesday – Cardio, Walking, Bike or Intensive Cardio
Wednesday – Cardio, Walking, Weights
Thursday – Swimming, Walking, Bike or Intensive Cardio*
Friday – Cardo if I miss Thursday afternoon
Saturday – Cardio & Weights, Walking/Biking
Sunday – Cardio/Biking/Walking

Swimming = 20-30 mins
Walking = 5 – 10km @ >5km/h
Biking = 8-30km

Cycle 1 (15 weeks)
2 x 250mg Test E (Monday/Thursday) Week 1 - 10
25 Aromasin ED Week 3 – 13
20mgs Caradrine ED Week 13 – 34
8g ED Creatine from week 11 until 2 weeks into next cylce
250 HCG day before test Week 6 – 10
300/100/50 Clomid Week 13 (Day 1, 10 Days, 10 Days)

“Clean” (15 weeks)
Reduce calorie intake
Continue creatine
No other supplements

Cycle 2
Same as cycle 1 with;
Cease creatine at week 3
Introduction of Anavar 50 ED at week 5 until week 10

Hopefully in a year, I will be much leaner, stronger and in a very good routine leading into my 40s.

2

Looks pretty ambitious. Good luck to you.

Why not creatine every day cycle or not? Why not stack trenbelone? I’d maybe get ahold of KSMan on your Clomid dose… seems high.

3

Your PCT is not good.

No need to use over 250 IU of HCG EOD. Read the thread below for advise on on your PCT. With that said, I congratulate you on working so hard to get healthy. Good luck to you

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/hpta-restart-for-trt-w-application-to-gear-pct/211723?u=ksman&source_topic_id=38

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Looks pretty ambitious. Good luck to you.

It is a little ambitious in terms of the exercise just based on having time - but I’ll do my best to keep to it. Once I’ve dropped the body fat / belly, I’ll be able to relax some of the cardio. Thanks!

Why not creatine every day cycle or not?

I decided not to use creatine during cycle for three reasons;

  1. AFAIK creatine increases water retention - which is part of how it works. Figuring I’ll be already battling with that so removed it from the equation.
  2. Figured it would help with recovery and give me a “clean” advantage during my “clean cycle”
  3. Trying to keep costs down

Why not stack trenbelone?

Keeping things simple and trying to keep costs down. What do you think would be the main advantages here?

I’d maybe get ahold of KSMan on your Clomid dose… seems high.

Thanks, will do . I’m actually considering chaning it to Nolva. Will consult and modify.

5

No need to use over 250 IU of HCG EOD

Thanks mate - good pick up. Was reading up on this last night and adjusted the dose to 250IU.

I’ve also moved the Cardarine to begin with PCT. I originally thought it would help burn fat while in cycle, but now thinking it will help with edurance as I transition back to natural test and also help with cutting over that period.

I’m considering changing the Clomid to Nolva.

I’ve also increased my Aromasin daily dose from this morning to 25 - with this its better safe than sorry and I figure with this extra body fat, I could use it. Will see how this goes over the next few days.

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Any other suggestions for improvement?

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Further to my hasty response - I guess I can add that I didnt know much about Tren. I just went back to what I used last time. I’ve now done some basic research on Tren - and it looks pretty damn good.

I’ve just had my 2nd week 3 pin of Test E. Wondering whether I can bring in some Tren Acetate a EOD into the mix to take advantage of the fat burning compounds, without having to wait for the long Ester, thus keeping on schedule?

Not particularly fond of chaning direction mid cycle, but the benefits of Tren are pretty hard to ignore!

Thoughts?

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I’m no expert, but my thinking is since you have the test e base cycle that tren will give you a lot of bang for your buck, and could just be added right into what you are already doing.

Ive yet to run tren myself but read about alot of guys using it. Does come with some sides.

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Are you suggesting Tren E or Acetate?

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I was thinking tren acetate, but I hadn’t thought of tren enanthate. I think the affects are the same but with different dosing and on a different timeline. The ester lengths are different. But again, I’m no expert.

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I think the acetate is really the only way to go here, as I’m already almost 4 weeks into the Test E and expecting it to really start kicking in soon. Not doing a very long cycle, so would be a shame to have to wait for the Tren E to make an appearance. I’ve ordered some Tren Ace with my HCG. Will run it for a short stint in the middle EOD from next Thursday for 20 pins. May drop the Test to 2x200 perhaps while running Tren…

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I’ve made a few modifications to the original cycle - that I’ve already started. I’ll continue the Creatine through to the next cycle and keep the cardarine for a while… not sure yet how long.

What do you think?

@KSman - any thoughts/advice on PCT?

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Here is one of his sticky posts.
https://forums.t-nation.com/t/hpta-restart-for-trt-w-application-to-gear-pct/211723?u=ksman&source_topic_id=38

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I have read that a few times and think Im on track. As I’m no expert - It’s always good to get someone who obviously knows what they’re talking about to confirm… hopefully @KSman has time! :slight_smile:

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Tren is no joke man… be ready for the storm. I love it but my heavy breathing and lack of ability to do cardio for extended periods while in tren scares my boys I work out with… plus I’m a constant sweaty mess and my sleep pattern is fucked. The ace cut me up like nothing I’ve ever seen man… It was insane, and my diet wasn’t tuned in as much as it could have. There’s another thing for me, tren ace makes it difficult to eat all the damn time. But I love that stuff. It will be a must have for anytime cutting is required. I tried the tren e for bulking and it just wasn’t there for me. I’d rather run test prop heavy with some dbol or something for bulking. Tren e and ace Def have different sides for me. The enth had me sleeping less at night and breathing harder after a few sets. It didn’t cut me up as quick. And the fatigue was worse on enth… good luck man!

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Thanks for sharing brother! Will check in with an update next week… I’m bracing for impact.

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When you start gear or even 100mg/week TRT, LH/FSH–>zero in a day or two. hCG should be used from day 1. It is foolish to shutdown your testes. Could start a few days before as it takes time to build serum levels of this hormone that has a longer half-life.

AI should be used from day 1, or even a few days before as it takes time to build serum levels of drugs.

Transition from hCG–>SERM can be next day, no gap.
SERM should not be doubled up at first, hCG is already taking the load.

I am not a fan of aromasin; may work well for you. The whole suicide inhibitor hype leaves me cold when compared to how little anastrozole is needed.

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Thanks @KSman. I’m starting HCG today. I’ll only have enough to have 2x250 week leading up to PCT, will this still be ok?

What do you mean no need to double up the SERM? You mean change the Nolva to 20/20/20/20?

I realise I jumped the gun pinning before I had all the stuff, didn’t know about PCT! Haven’t done this in 10 years. Great to see people taking their health more seriously, there’s a lot of great info out there now (and a lot of bullsh!t to sift through). Thanks for getting back to me.

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Will be getting bloods back in a couple of days. Unfortunatly I didnt get any pre-cycle bloods, but this will be interesting to see how the test has tracked nevertheless.

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The objective with hCG or SERMs is to have LH receptor stimulation that is not high. If LH receptors have high stimulation, when you finish PCT and get whatever your normal LH levels will be, the transition of the LH signal from high to [hopefully] normal is not telling your testes to work harder - it is signal to work less. So much PCT talk here is doing insane things and many do survive these insults, but we see guys all of the time who do not, busted HPTA’s in the prime of their lives. It is a constant battle against bro-science, a battle that cannot be won.

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