Irrational? I am beginner.
Assuming you do proper form and use managable weight, what are the chances that you will hurt a knee on squats and lower back on deadlift?
I am new and I feel I have good grasp of form, it’s just that I don’t f*ck up my knee or back.
should i just start with really light weights to get knees/back used to doing the motions?
If you always use good form, the chances of a major injury are slim. Learn good form in the beginning though, because old habits die hard. Pick up Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe from amazon.com and do yourself a huge favor by reading it cover to cover.
You should be OK. What is your age? The younger you are the better. A 70 year old geriatric trying to deadlift 80% of 1RM has a much higher chance of getting injured over a 16 year old under same circumstance.
Your body should be able to prevent injury through 1RM. I assume you are not deadlifting 900 pounds. Maybe 120 as a beginner? Keep your form solid and you got no worries.
If you are really concerned about it, make sure you warm up good. Maybe even pyramid your sets to higher percentages of your 1RM (1 rep max).
The bottom line, lifting heavy weight as a beginner does not equal serious injury.
Some decent warm up threads:
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-176-training
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-177-training
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_115warm
Props to you for making an effort. I appreciate working toward a goal.
Thanks guys.
Great forum; I hope to stick around and soak things in. I am the classic skinny guy. 27, 511, 150.
On the deadlifts with back saftely in mind, I’ve only been doing 95 pounds.
thanks for the links. Warm up is something I don’t have a concept of yet. 
Best thing you can do is hire a qualified coach to teach you proper form. $200 up front will save you a lot of money in the long run.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Best thing you can do is hire a qualified coach to teach you proper form. $200 up front will save you a lot of money in the long run.
[/quote]
While I appreciate you Cad Law and respect what you have to say, I have to disagree here.
If this guy is any type of self taught individual, which he seems from his post, then he is capable of reading and learning more than what an expensive trainer can teach him in the short time he would pay for said trainer’s advice/cirtique.
Form is not a science that requires professinal consultation. Especially as a beginner. In my humble opinion.
Op,
Do some searches, read, learn, research, and execute. It is that simple.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Best thing you can do is hire a qualified coach to teach you proper form. $200 up front will save you a lot of money in the long run.
[/quote]
A coach who knows how to teach them correctly would probably be best, agreed.
Currently reading starting strength, and I’ve gotta say, if there is one thing aside from a live coach that will teach the movements correctly, its that book.
[quote]Petedacook wrote:
While I appreciate you Cad Law and respect what you have to say, I have to disagree here.
If this guy is any type of self taught individual, which he seems from his post, then he is capable of reading and learning more than what an expensive trainer can teach him in the short time he would pay for said trainer’s advice/cirtique.
Form is not a science that requires professinal consultation. Especially as a beginner. In my humble opinion.
Op,
Do some searches, read, learn, research, and execute. It is that simple.
[/quote]
I completely disagree. I was self taught with the power clean. It wasn’t until I received coaching that I realised how far off I was. There are many things that you cannot get a handle of from only reading and watching movies.
A good trainer can pick up on small flaws that could cause major issues months and years down the road. How many self taught trainees do you see in the gym with horrendous form? They’re in the majority at the gyms I’ve been to. I’m sure they all read about how to lift too.
2 sessions with a good trainer will teach him more than a year of bumbling around. I think hiring a good trainer is an excellent investment. Especially if he’s a beginner and is concerned with long term joint health and safety.
Just start doing them. Read and learn as much about the lifts as you can. Watch videos of others. If you can, video yourself and analyze and post it for others to analyze.
I believe, even if your form isn’t textbook perfect (as long as it’s decent form), you’ll be fine. Get comfortable with the lifts and slowly start to push yourself. As you progress, you will learn your body and how it moves. In effect, you will learn how your body feels dong the lift and you will get a “feel” for when you are doing something wrong.
Getting a coach is not a bad idea, either, I just believe it is important for beginners to learn their body.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
2 sessions with a good trainer will teach him more than a year of bumbling around. I think hiring a good trainer is an excellent investment. Especially if he’s a beginner and is concerned with long term joint health and safety.
[/quote]
The key word here is “good” trainer. Most of the trainers I’ve seen would not know a deadlift if it walked up and bit them in the ass.
That’s not to insult real trainers like yourself, but, to be quite honest with you, people could learn a lot more from other gym members than the trainers at the gyms I frequent.
Be buggered if I know where it is now, but recently someone posted a link to a 50 minute (or thereabouts) video of Dan John educating some folks on some dead and squat techniques.
Bloody good stuff and if someone’s kind enough to add it to this thread for you, I’m sure you’ll find it very enlightening. I downloaded the whole thing and made my boy watch it all before his next gym session.
G’luck.
[quote]duke wrote:
Be buggered if I know where it is now, but recently someone posted a link to a 50 minute (or thereabouts) video of Dan John educating some folks on some dead and squat techniques.
Bloody good stuff and if someone’s kind enough to add it to this thread for you, I’m sure you’ll find it very enlightening. I downloaded the whole thing and made my boy watch it all before his next gym session.
G’luck.[/quote]
I believe it is on the fitcast website.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
While I appreciate you Cad Law and respect what you have to say, I have to disagree here.
If this guy is any type of self taught individual, which he seems from his post, then he is capable of reading and learning more than what an expensive trainer can teach him in the short time he would pay for said trainer’s advice/cirtique.
Form is not a science that requires professinal consultation. Especially as a beginner. In my humble opinion.
Op,
Do some searches, read, learn, research, and execute. It is that simple.
I completely disagree. I was self taught with the power clean. It wasn’t until I received coaching that I realised how far off I was. There are many things that you cannot get a handle of from only reading and watching movies.
A good trainer can pick up on small flaws that could cause major issues months and years down the road. How many self taught trainees do you see in the gym with horrendous form? They’re in the majority at the gyms I’ve been to. I’m sure they all read about how to lift too.
2 sessions with a good trainer will teach him more than a year of bumbling around. I think hiring a good trainer is an excellent investment. Especially if he’s a beginner and is concerned with long term joint health and safety.
[/quote]
Well said, I agree 100%. I wish I could go back in time and not fumble around for the first few years… but hey that’s how I had to learn.
But here’s the question: how does the OP begin to know what constitutes a knowledgeable coach?
It’s a funny dilemma, because a newbie will not know what perfect technique is. He might just be sold on the guy who he thinks looks the biggest/strongest. I think there’s a large amount of luck that goes into good training. I was lucky enough to be in touch with some very advanced guys (I’ve met and learned a lot from elite powerlifters and bodybuilders, all through pure luck).
To the OP:
You’re going to have to use your judgement and luckily you’ll encounter some people at the gym training squats and/or deadlifts who would be willing to instruct you on how to perform these exercises properly. You’re just gonna have to ask around the gym, and hopefully you’ll learn from some good people.
Keep in mind that it’s not unlikely that you’ll hear contradicting things from various trainees/trainers, but you’ve gotta use your judgement to determine which ideas you trust. If you ask the right people, in all likelihood the disagreements/contradictions between information that you receive from differing sources will only be regarding nuances of the exercises, and not over fundamental aspects of the exercises.
[quote]AgentOrange wrote:
Sxio wrote:
2 sessions with a good trainer will teach him more than a year of bumbling around. I think hiring a good trainer is an excellent investment. Especially if he’s a beginner and is concerned with long term joint health and safety.
The key word here is “good” trainer. Most of the trainers I’ve seen would not know a deadlift if it walked up and bit them in the ass.
That’s not to insult real trainers like yourself, but, to be quite honest with you, people could learn a lot more from other gym members than the trainers at the gyms I frequent.[/quote]
Look around your gym, find someone who looks like they know their shit, and ask them to critique your form. Much cheaper than hiring a trainer. And, at most of the gyms I have gone to, many of the trainees beat the trainers hands down.
Cheaper too and you may score yourself a good training partner
Find a video online of someone doing deadlifts, and watch it a few times. Have your training partner watch it too, and give each other pointers on form. That’s how I did it anyway, I think it worked just fine.
[quote]mrjones wrote:
Irrational? I am beginner.
Assuming you do proper form and use managable weight, what are the chances that you will hurt a knee on squats and lower back on deadlift?
I am new and I feel I have good grasp of form, it’s just that I don’t f*ck up my knee or back.
should i just start with really light weights to get knees/back used to doing the motions? [/quote]
Although I understand your fear, overcoming it is one of the most important things you can do for your body. These are the exercises to learn.
As far as form goes, I think it is fairly intuitive once you have the exercise pictured in your mind. A straight, stable back and clean, smooth motions will not do you wrong.
With both exercises, a bowed back is your greatest risk of injury (to my understanding). Keep your spine aligned.