T Nation

Advise...Overtraining?

38 years old, 6ft tall, 220lbs. Been lifting off and on for the past 20 years. Recently got back into it hardcore and the gains just weren’t there. Am I overtraining?

Routine:

Day 1, chest/tri
bench-5 sets
incline bench-5 sets
flys-5 sets
dumbell incline press-5 sets
hammer strengh press-5 sets

pushdowns-5 sets
rope ext-5 sets
dumbell ext-5 sets
lying tri ext-5 sets

Day 2, back/bi
pulldowns-5 sets
v-grip pulldowns-5 sets
dumbell rows-5 sets
t-bar rows-5 sets
pully rows-5 sets

barbell curls-5 sets
preacher curls-5 sets
dumbell curls-5 sets
concentration curls-5 sets

Day 3, delts/forearms
side laterals-5 sets
hammer strengh shoulder press-5 sets
bent laterals-5 sets
upright rows-5 sets
shrugs-5 sets

wrist curls-5 sets
reverse wrist curls-5 sets

Day 4, legs
squats
13512
225
10
2756
315
3
3653
405
3
225*20
leg extentions-5 sets
leg curls-5 sets
calf raises-5 sets

I’ll basically repeat this and take a day off in the third week.

My diet consists of 250-350 grams of protein a day, tuna, chicken breast, egg whites, whey suppliments. Minimal fat. 5-7 servings of fruit/veggies a day and about a gallon of water. Carb grams about equal the protein via bean, oatmeal, bagels. Meals are spaced, 5 to 6 a day.

Too much? Too little?

Well, thirty eight years old, could be test production and levels of free test are down from the last time you were hitting it hard. Try Alpha Male see if you get an increase in your gains from using it.

D

Since overtraining is a neural condition, we can’t tell you that from looking at your program. Are you making progress in weight, reps, density, sets, or any other form of progression? Then you are probably not overtraining.

Do you have a reason for “minimal fat?” Eat more of it. It’s good for you.

My strengh, size, definition are increasing, although not at the pace as they once could. Maybe I got too out of shape or it could be the age factor? Also, I lost a nut due to testicular cancer 5 years ago. I think I need to get my test levels checked.

[quote]OneEye wrote:
…Do you have a reason for “minimal fat?” Eat more of it. It’s good for you.[/quote]

I second this. More meaty manfood.

[quote]wiz1902 wrote:
…Also, I lost a nut due to testicular cancer 5 years ago. I think I need to get my test levels checked.[/quote]

Ouch! I’m no expert, but one would think that could profoundly effect available test though for all I know maybe overproduction compensates for this or something. Getting checked would probably be a good idea. You’re scarin me having something like that happen to you so young.

[quote]wiz1902 wrote:
Am I overtraining?
Too much? Too little?[/quote]
are you growing? If not, you are either training too much or too little. My guess is too much and eating too little. Look, step it back on volume, and eat more. You can’t get less results, can you?

Looks like a lot of volume to me. Do you really need 5 different lifts at 5 sets each for biceps? Thats roughly 250 repetitions in one session for just biceps! Dude…you’re not 18 anymore!

If I am reading correctly, you are taking one day off every 3 weeks?

You are doing about 150 sets over 4 days, then repeating?

The fact that you are gaining at all amazes me. Chalk one up for us older guys.

I would dramatically cut the volume and increase rest days.

Since you are coming back into training why not take advantage of muscle memory and do the least to get the most.

I do admire your enthusiasm but that’s way too much volume in my opinion.

[quote]Jimfound wrote:
Looks like a lot of volume to me. Do you really need 5 different lifts at 5 sets each for biceps? Thats roughly 250 repetitions in one session for just biceps! Dude…you’re not 18 anymore![/quote]

I agree. By the time you get to your fourth and fifth exercise your weights must be pretty low compared with the start of your workout. I dont think thats the way to grow

[quote]nikolo wrote:
…I would dramatically cut the volume and increase rest days…[/quote]

I have to start paying more attention when reading these forums at work. I’m onboard with the too much volume and not enough rest crowd.

Maybe try getting rid of some of the repetitive stuff like flys and 5 sets of 5 different curl variations and rest three days out of the week for a while.

[quote]wiz1902 wrote:
Also, I lost a nut due to testicular cancer 5 years ago. I think I need to get my test levels checked.[/quote]

I have a friend that i work with that had this happen to him. Very scary, and seeing him go through chemo was tough. He worked full time through the chemo.

He posts on here sometimes, but i don’t want to expose him (thats his choice).

Anyhow, I thought a good way to tell if there was a problem is if you get woody in the morning.

I am also going to have to say it looks like too much volume. You could probably get rid of the forearm work and not miss it. Usually you get all the forearm work you need from all the other exercises(I found it to be a waste of time). Most people agree leg extension is crap, recommend get rid of it.

You need a rest day, or more during the week. I would say 1-4 days rest each week is good, depending on what you want/are doing. Need to cut back on the total volume all together.

I don’t see deadlift in there either, and I would definitely add that.

Maybe reading the set/rep bible will help?
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-091-training

Me thinks if you are not over training now, you soon will be.

Actually, relative to my body and lifting the cancer was non eventful. It was caught early and no chemo was involed. The nut was yanked in out patient surgery and the pathology report showed no signs of spread. The biggest thing was mentally you’re fucked up for about a year. The whole “I had cancer” thing, every little pain and you think it’s back. Sexually nothing changed, i’m still the save perv as I was before, I guess that’s why we have two.

[quote]wiz1902 wrote:
Actually, relative to my body and lifting the cancer was non eventful. It was caught early and no chemo was involed. The nut was yanked in out patient surgery and the pathology report showed no signs of spread. The biggest thing was mentally you’re fucked up for about a year. The whole “I had cancer” thing, every little pain and you think it’s back. Sexually nothing changed, i’m still the save perv as I was before, I guess that’s why we have two. [/quote]

My friend caught his late. He says it appeared one day. Two days after he noticed something he went to the doctor and it was too late. They said it was advanced.

He also says he has noticed no drop in sex drive. According to him, the doc told him the remaining teste would make up for the difference in T levels.

Some good points made here, but one more thing you should also consider: how do you feel - both in the gym and out of it? Your body will usually tell if you’re overtraining because within a couple of weeks you’ll start feeling like crap and you’ll likely feel less enthused about hitting the gym.

Overtraining and the ability to recover from training are things that vary a great deal from individual to individual. The routine you posted would completely fuck me over (assuming I was hitting every set hard), but that doesn’t mean it would be the same for everyone.

If you feel okay and you’ve been doing this routine for a while, it might be worth checking other options - like getting your T levels checked, and changing your diet, as other posters have mentioned.

[quote]wiz1902 wrote:
38 years old, 6ft tall, 220lbs. Been lifting off and on for the past 20 years. Recently got back into it hardcore and the gains just weren’t there. Am I overtraining?

Routine:

Day 1, chest/tri
bench-5 sets
incline bench-5 sets
flys-5 sets
dumbell incline press-5 sets
hammer strengh press-5 sets

pushdowns-5 sets
rope ext-5 sets
dumbell ext-5 sets
lying tri ext-5 sets

Day 2, back/bi
pulldowns-5 sets
v-grip pulldowns-5 sets
dumbell rows-5 sets
t-bar rows-5 sets
pully rows-5 sets

barbell curls-5 sets
preacher curls-5 sets
dumbell curls-5 sets
concentration curls-5 sets

Day 3, delts/forearms
side laterals-5 sets
hammer strengh shoulder press-5 sets
bent laterals-5 sets
upright rows-5 sets
shrugs-5 sets

wrist curls-5 sets
reverse wrist curls-5 sets

Day 4, legs
squats
13512
225
10
2756
315
3
3653
405
3
225*20
leg extentions-5 sets
leg curls-5 sets
calf raises-5 sets

I’ll basically repeat this and take a day off in the third week.

My diet consists of 250-350 grams of protein a day, tuna, chicken breast, egg whites, whey suppliments. Minimal fat. 5-7 servings of fruit/veggies a day and about a gallon of water. Carb grams about equal the protein via bean, oatmeal, bagels. Meals are spaced, 5 to 6 a day.

Too much? Too little?[/quote]

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459926

Excellent Article that should shed some light on your problem or give you some answers.

cheers!

you need less reps/workout, more rest (take at least 2 days off/week a not in a row) and you need to eat lots of healthy fats. You need fats to Grow!

even if you are eating 350 g/protein and 350 g carbs like you say, and "minimal fat),

thats about 2800 cals without fat and about
maybe lets say, 3100 cals with fat? Even if you were at 3500 cals i would say you are not eating enough at 220 lbs.

[quote]consumer wrote:
even if you are eating 350 g/protein and 350 g carbs like you say, and "minimal fat),

thats about 2800 cals without fat and about
maybe lets say, 3100 cals with fat? Even if you were at 3500 cals i would say you are not eating enough at 220 lbs.[/quote]

And most assuredly not enough fat maybe to even be healthy, nevermind for muscle growth.