Why did you put semi-pro in quotes dude,haven’t you heard of semi-pro leagues before? Anyways, I haven’t played at the semi pro level yet, I plan to try out in the fall. As for the squats, well its no secret my squat is not very good.
But,to tackle somebody and keep them from gaining a lot of y.a.i.c you don’t need to squat a lot…I use a throw down style rather than a drive back one. However, I would like to get more strength in my legs…but front squats should help with that. If I can do a 225 front squat come tryout day I’d be happy with that
honestly it sounds like you just need a solid ass lifting program focused around the big 3 and cleans/front squats. Not to be one of those guys who runs around saying 5/3/1 at every question but in this case it seems like it would work well, you can frotn squat as accessory and powerclean as wamrups with like 50% some days and do heavier days as well before squats as he advises.
[quote]Halfspin4life wrote:
Why did you put semi-pro in quotes dude,haven’t you heard of semi-pro leagues before? Anyways, I haven’t played at the semi pro level yet, I plan to try out in the fall. As for the squats, well its no secret my squat is not very good.
But,to tackle somebody and keep them from gaining a lot of y.a.i.c you don’t need to squat a lot…I use a throw down style rather than a drive back one. However, I would like to get more strength in my legs…but front squats should help with that. If I can do a 225 front squat come tryout day I’d be happy with that[/quote]
Yes I have. I put it in qotes because I seriously doubt that the level of competition in a league should be described as “semi pro” if the players have a 165 squat. I’m not trying to be a dick. I’m trying to help you out. Your hang clean is the least of your worries when you squat 165. You couldn’t play on my high school’s JV team with a 165 squat, unless you were a kicker or punter.
I don’t think your trying to be a dick, but your not understanding what I’m saying. The league I’m trying out for isn’t full of 165 lb squatters,but the styles I play doesn’t require a monster squat. The slam is more in the upper body. I do want to improve my squat though,for more leg power. The clean however, I think will be good for a more powerful slam.I have to focus more on the lifts that will help what I’m going for the most though.
As for h.s., the coach never tested our maxes at a tryout. I first played varsity in 10th grade, and earned a spot on the kickoff team in 11th, through good tackling. You can get someone to the ground no matter how strong they are, with good tackling skills. But the front squats will hopefully help me get more leg power. I do want to improve that since it will make things easier.
[quote]Halfspin4life wrote:
I don’t think your trying to be a dick, but your not understanding what I’m saying. The league I’m trying out for isn’t full of 165 lb squatters,but the styles I play doesn’t require a monster squat. The slam is more in the upper body. I do want to improve my squat though,for more leg power. The clean however, I think will be good for a more powerful slam.I have to focus more on the lifts that will help what I’m going for the most though.
As for h.s., the coach never tested our maxes at a tryout. I first played varsity in 10th grade, and earned a spot on the kickoff team in 11th, through good tackling. You can get someone to the ground no matter how strong they are, with good tackling skills. But the front squats will hopefully help me get more leg power. I do want to improve that since it will make things easier.[/quote]
You don’t need a monster squat, but you sure as hell need one bigger than 165. I get that you use your upper body when you tackle, but with a strength level that low by comparision, you are at a FUCKING HUGE disadvantage. My point is, there is no need for you to be at this disadvantage, because if you wanted you could increase your squat and general strength level.
Cleans are not as big of a deal for football as everyone thinks they are. They especially are not going to help you slam anything, since the movement is the exact opposite of that.
My coaches didn’t have strength numbers as a standard for a tryout, that’s not what I was trying to say. What I mean is that someone with a strength level so low would be at such a disadvantage that there is no way they could compete, no matter how good their technique is.
Think about a wrestler. If a 100 pound guy has the very best technique possible, it will not matter if he wrestles a 300 pounder with good or even average technique. I’m not saying to not focus on technique, because it is important. I am saying that for you, your technique is not your biggest weekness, your strength is.
Its not only technique, its field skills too. Throughout my time on varsity, I figured out ways to match up with stronger guys…as long as you can take the hit, it goes a very long way.
But, I do agree. You can pretty much throw anybody forward and get them down…but, to make them fall sideways,you need more strength…so I will work on it. Its a part of the clean training anyway, front squats.
Anyways, i’m interested in what you said about cleans not helping with the slam tackle. Your saying it won’t help any? How is it the exact opposite movement? I figured slinging the weight like that would help with strength in tackle throwing somebody sideways.
Also, if not cleans…what does help strengthen that?
[quote]Halfspin4life wrote:
Its not only technique, its field skills too. Throughout my time on varsity, I figured out ways to match up with stronger guys…as long as you can take the hit, it goes a very long way.
But, I do agree. You can pretty much throw anybody forward and get them down…but, to make them fall sideways,you need more strength…so I will work on it. Its a part of the clean training anyway, front squats.
Anyways, i’m interested in what you said about cleans not helping with the slam tackle. Your saying it won’t help any? How is it the exact opposite movement? I figured slinging the weight like that would help with strength in tackle throwing somebody sideways.
Also, if not cleans…what does help strengthen that?[/quote]
That’s good, but what I’m saying is, you don’t have to be the smaller and/or weaker guy. What if you were bigger and/or stronger than your opponents combined with your technique? That is what you need to work on, because that is your biggest weak point.
I guess it may help a little bit for throwing sideways, but practicing throwing something up isn’t going to help you throw something down.
Getting stronger overall will help. Improving your clean does not need to be the focus of your training program. Don’t squat in order to clean more, squat in order to squat more.
Well, I certainly would like to gain leg strength to help with both areas, tackling and running with the ball in the drills doing my spin moves. However, there are guys in this league that squat 400 and possibly even 500 pounds. I don’t expect to reach that kind of level, but I do hope to get it higher.
I understand what you mean by opposite movement now, however it would be impossible to do a lift that actually resembled a tackle by throwing somebody into the ground and going down with them. It is in large part just a field skill, but there has to be some lift that strengthens the slam. I do care about the cleans for non football reasons. I go with the lift since I’m good at it and want a great level, 300 or more. In part, its a confidence thing…It gives me something to do go and work on until I get a chance to test my football skills.
[quote]Halfspin4life wrote:
Well, I certainly would like to gain leg strength to help with both areas, tackling and running with the ball in the drills doing my spin moves. However, there are guys in this league that squat 400 and possibly even 500 pounds. I don’t expect to reach that kind of level, but I do hope to get it higher.
I understand what you mean by opposite movement now, however it would be impossible to do a lift that actually resembled a tackle by throwing somebody into the ground and going down with them. It is in large part just a field skill, but there has to be some lift that strengthens the slam. I do care about the cleans for non football reasons. I go with the lift since I’m good at it and want a great level, 300 or more. In part, its a confidence thing…It gives me something to do go and work on until I get a chance to test my football skills.[/quote]
You can absolutely squat 4 or 5 hundred pounds, it just takes time.
You don’t have to try to mimick a move on the field in the weight room to make it stronger. As I get stronger, my tackles get stronger, even though there isn’t a “tackle lift”
Like I said, you need to be working on your overall strength, not your hang clean strength. Being bigger and stronger will give you more confidence than your hang clean.
This was taken from one of Kelly Baggett’s articles:
"Can a guy who practices cleans every day of his life, yet only squats 300 pounds, clean as much as the 700 pound squatting powerlifter who comes into the gym and does cleans for the first time in his life? Usually not. My point is this: How much you can clean is highly dependent on how strong you are overall and cleans aren’t as good as movements like squats and deadlifts at making you stronger overall. Regardless of how good your technique is on cleans and how much you practice them, the only way you’re gonna clean 315 is if you get your overall body strength up to the point where you are capable of at least a ~400 pound squat and 400 pound deadlift minimum. "
If what your saying about squats and deadlifts in relation is true, then how is it that I now can clean more than I squat…and by 50 pounds. Obviously you have to be able to deadlift more than you can clean, but that’s because it literally is half the lift. There obviously is no tackle lift, which is why I didn’t understand the point of it being the opposite movement…but I figured slinging weight had to be atleast somewhat similar to slinging a back into the ground. Anyhow, I am already living proof that you can clean more than you can squat, however…I do agree I won’t be cleaning 315 with a 165 squat,certainly not. Thus, I will work on the front squats for sure…I’m also thinking of doing push presses,to give my shoulders some beef…that way it won’t be as hard on them, as when I run the ball I drop them down…any suggestions on shoulder beefing exercises for that?
How’s your clean form? Why do you clean from the hang instead of the ground? Can you upload a vid of your clean form? I bet if you did and posted it here and in the olympic lifting forum you’d get some great advice on technique that would boost your clean up.
[quote]alocubano1110 wrote:
How’s your clean form? Why do you clean from the hang instead of the ground? Can you upload a vid of your clean form? I bet if you did and posted it here and in the olympic lifting forum you’d get some great advice on technique that would boost your clean up. [/quote]. The initial rep is done from the ground, basically its a deadlift followed by however many reps. I do hang clean so it can get my upper body more…powercleans from what I know are more of an explosive lift from the hips, which isn’t what I’m going for. I don’t have a video of myself doing the clean right now, but I likely will post one on youtube when I get up higher…now though, I don’t want to film it…however, from videos of other cleans I’ve seen my technique seems fine…not perfect im dure, but it gets it done.
[quote]alocubano1110 wrote:
How’s your clean form? Why do you clean from the hang instead of the ground? Can you upload a vid of your clean form? I bet if you did and posted it here and in the olympic lifting forum you’d get some great advice on technique that would boost your clean up. [/quote]. The initial rep is done from the ground, basically its a deadlift followed by however many reps. I do hang clean so it can get my upper body more…powercleans from what I know are more of an explosive lift from the hips, which isn’t what I’m going for. I don’t have a video of myself doing the clean right now, but I likely will post one on youtube when I get up higher…now though, I don’t want to film it…however, from videos of other cleans I’ve seen my technique seems fine…not perfect im dure, but it gets it done.[/quote]
you ask how you can imporve your hang clean then refuse to participate in any discussion of items that would lead to better assessing you clean and improving it. Dont ask if you already know your answer.
Lol, I haven’t refused to participate. I’ve been open to advice from everyone in this thread.I find it helpful. I just don’t want to tape myself since i get nervous before cleaning and the tape would make that worse. But, this site appears to be a good source for advice…not just a bunch of clowns like other sites I’ve been too
So, I can hang clean 225 at 3 reps now…front squats work well as an assistance lift. However, I’d like some more ideas…particularly assistance lifts that target the arms and upper body. Would a push press help with a hang clean for instance…thoughts anyone?
I currently play university level football(CJFL). So your problem is that you want a bigger clean right? First off find a work out program because you need total body strength. With your 150lb squat, when a Lineman comes to pick you up, your going to get light up. So follow the advice that they are giving you. It will help you in the end for the season.
O an for the tackling its from the lower body power
Where is this semi pro league you are playing in that there are only “some” guys that squat in the 400-500 range. At my college even our SS is hitting over 500 lbs.
No idea why you are focused on a clean if you cant even squat 200. The whole “slam” part is irrelevant. This is coming from someone who played football but most importantly wrestled for 6 years. A strong back and legs lead to a stronger slam if thats what you are looking for…
At least work on front squats that will help your clean if thats truly your goal. May I ask what position you are trying to play at your weight?
