T Nation

Advice on What to Use for Cardio/Recovery?

Pharma
#1

Morning gents (and ladies if any on here)

I’ve joined up here to get some proper advice and do some reading before having an experiment. Having read some responses on stuff I can see some of you guys have more pharmaceutical knowledge than most professional medical staff!

So me:

I’m a guy who rides bikes recreationally and would really like to get a bit (a lot) quicker. Feel like I hit my genetic limit last year and want some assistance. You can’t ask this stuff on road bike forums as it’s not discussed openly despite the clear evidence of doping dropping into some of the most amateur racing circles (to be fair probably more than the pro circles due to the testing being absent).

I’m not far off 40 and to be honest training feels like I’m just working to hang on to levels of fitness I’ve had in the past.

So I want to get stronger/fitter cardiovasuclarly whilst not putting on weight as that will kill my climbing ability on the bike.

I don’t recover like I used to and find 4 or 5 hours in the saddle leaves me dying with aching legs for a week afterwards these days. No matter how much I ride I can’t seem to shift a bit of flab off my hips and a bit all over. I reckon I’ve got 10lb of fat I’d like to lose and want to do it whilst not losing leg mass and strength.

Not sure if this is the right board to put this on, I’m viewing this on a mobile phone so if it needs moving please would a mod do this rather than delete?

Any help advice on what to be looking at and start with, things to look out for so I don’t get ripped off buying fake stuff etc would all be really appreciated.

P.s. I won’t touch epo due to the risk of death in the night etc that’s been documented so that ones a non starter.

Need a sports "doctor". Can you advise? Cycling/racing
#2

If you’re fancy (read: have lots of spare cash) HGH. If you’re less fancy you can use a combination of peptides. These are (simplified version) growth hormone releasing drugs. They tell your body to secrete more GH, which leads to higher GH levels, which leads to better recovery. They also can help with fat loss, though they don’t “burn” fat. What they actually do is, by causing more GH to be released, they help slow down the formation of new fat. You can imagine how useful that is to someone who works out and has a good diet.

Do some reading on things like Ipamorelin, GRF 1-29, and CJC 1295 w/DAC.

#3

HGH… in all seriousness, I’ve always associated that with overgrown ears and noses etc. Is it safe to use? If have no idea about riding etc. Should I use some test with that at my age too?

You mention it is costly. I’m based in the UK. If I could find a source I have no idea what we are talking. Do you cycle it likes course of test?

#4

HGH cycles are longer than typical test cycles, anywhere from 3-6months. Peptides can be run in the same way, generally.

The cost is the cost irrespective of where you are. Pharma grade GH is going to be between $8-10/d (I don’t know the conversion to pounds, but you get the idea). The “generic” stuff will be maybe 30-40% cheaper, but finding which one to use and which source is reliable is more work than a senior thesis. It’s all out there, you just have to do a lot of research before spending that kind of cash.

As for adding test, I’m a fan. But before anything else you should get blood work done and see what you natural levels are currently. If you’re still in a good range at age 40 maybe you want to hold off a bit longer. If you’re already on the low end then you could benefit from going into a trt program. But it’s too early to make that determination.

HGH is perfectly safe if used responsibly. Like many other things it’s the abuse that heightens the risks. Guys have been on it for a decade at modest doses for anti aging and other such reasons. If you run it at 5x the normal dose then expect some problems.

I’m tagging in @studhammer because he recently wrapped up a GH run and he can give you some more info on his experience. I’m just starting my course of peptides, so I do t have any personal experience to share just yet. In two months I should know more.

#5

Cheers. Funnily enough I’ve just booked an online test/free test/psa/estridiol test to see if trt is worth a go

#6

@roadie

Hey brother, yes, I ran HGH for about 90 days. I injected 5 IU every night before bed. I was concurrently running a blast of Test and NPP. For the record, I’m 54…HGH was my silver bullet for fat loss. I initially gained 22 pounds of water and then after the water went away in about 2 weeks, I started dropping body fat consistently. I ended up losing 18 pounds which equated to 4 inches off of my waist and about an inch in areas like chest circumference, legs, arms, etc. Overall I kept most of my muscle, and increased vascularity.

The bad news is that I had shoulder surgery almost immediately after I finished the GH. So I went from active lifting to pretty much nothing for 6 weeks except for some cardio and one arm cable stuff. Without the additonal GH, my weight came back pretty fast and I wasnt eating like I probably should have. I’m still in PT and extremely limited in the gym, only doing legs and super light cable stuff. No chest or shoulder work.

I paid about $170 US /100 IU for my stuff. It was chinese generic from a UGL.

Regarding peptides, I just ordered some Ipamorelin and Mod GRF 1-29 and I’m going to run these for 12 weeks and see what happens.

#7

Cheers for that. I’ll do some reading on HGH. I hadn’t even considered it. Have to admit, putting stuff from an UGL in me scares the shit out of me… Would prefer Pharma grade of whatever I buy.

I’ve read one person in a similair instance to me using Test and EQ. Anyone got any thoughts on how this would help me? Am I right in thinking that stuff should be easy to get hold of? Not asking for info on where, just general knowledge of what tends to be easy to get.

#8

Test and EQ would be great for a cyclist, but you’ll have to manage the weight gain pretty carefully. You mentioned how additional weight makes a climb that much harder, so with that in mind you’ll have to dose those two very carefully.

EQ does not seem to blow guys up the way test or nandrolone do. But one of the benefits that is commonly seen on it is appetite increase. That’s great for a bulk. Maybe not as great if you’re trying not to bulk. But on paper EQ is pretty killer for you. I might also mention that turinabol was used by East German olympians for decades because it increased strength, endurance, and did not lead to huge weight gain.

As far as pharma GH vs generic I’ll say a few things, some of which may not be agree with by other members. There’s no such thing as a true UGL form of GH. It simply doesn’t exist. The process to make it is entirely too difficult and cost prohibitive for 99.99% of UGLs. Most of the stuff that’s being sold through a particular lab is in fact Chinese (almost always Chinese) made, pharma-adjacent product. Meaning that it’s made in real labs and is in many cases an approved generic that can be sold in a pharmacy in China. It’s simply rebranded for major UGLs and sold as their “black tops” or “mauve tops” or whatever they choose to go by. I personally would use a “UGL” GH if the source was good, because it’s not really the same as UGL steroids. Most of them are resellers because the economics of making it yourself, even as a large operation, are impossible to get around. But, if you want actual pharma it’s out there and for the right price it can be yours.

Because GH is so cost prohibitive for most guys, peptides are the better choice, at least for the first run. Those are much easier to source and if you end up not liking how it works you didn’t invest a mortgage payment in a cycle that you may end up trashing.

#9

Thanks for all that.

So if I didn’t want to go for HGH or peptides, based on availability etc. What other options might I have?

You mention turinabol… is that easily found? I guess I need to go and see a man and ask what he has. That will obviously influence my options too.

Test and EQ being one.

Anyone got any other ideas/suggestions to explore and read about?

#10

Turinabol would be a good choice based on your stated goals. Turinabol will significantly promote muscular endurance, you won’t tire out as fast and your overall rate of recovery will be greatly improved.

#11

Ok. Next question, can you buy pharma grade turinabol? Or is it all UGL? I’m really wanting to steer clear if UGL stuff as I want to 100% know what Im putting in me is what it says it is.

#12

Evening all… I asked a few weeks back for some advice and I think I’ve phrased this question wrong. So gonna try a different approach.

Can you help a cyclist fast approaching 40 to become competitive enough to win an amateur race? Just for the record- we are talking amateur racing/no prize money and looking at the physiques of fellow competitors I’m about the only guy left who’s not using anything.

Feel like I’ve exhausted my genetic potential. I’ve weighed up the pros and cons and now want to do what most other people who are racing successfully probably do and use some assistance.

Where do I start? I want my legs to grow bigger, stronger and have more stamina whilst cutting excess fat. I’d like my upper body to not lose muscle but not waste away either. Id like to lose 10kg whilst getting stronger and fitter.

Can you design me a cycle/gear programme to start with? Where would I go from there? What I do can’t cause me to then lose everything and go worse than where I started when I stop whatever I’m taking (I understand I will go backwards… I just can’t drop back further than current level). I can train 10-15 hours a week and know how to train, my body just can’t sustain it in its natural state.

I don’t want to touch growth hormones as I just don’t trust the idea… but will take/inject other substances.

So… Can a bunch of very educated self educated pharmaceutical experts act as my team sky doctors?

Where should I start? I need whatever I take to not tank my cardio fitness (improve it if possible).

#13

It’s appears this has been merged into my previous post- hope the slight change of question makes sense…

#14

It was merged because your original question was about a cycle to help with your biking and your “new” question is about… a cycle to help with your biking. Or am I missing something? I also un-edited the title because it has nothing to do with “sports doctors”.

Really, you got solid advice a few weeks ago. Why you haven’t applied it yet, I’m not sure. Have you even gotten a bloodwork panel to see your current levels before you start playing with your hormones?

#15

Blood work on Monday booked. Difference subtle. Last question asked about recovery.

I’m now saying… could anyone experienced design me a starting course? If that is breaking rules then apologies, wasn’t intended.

#16

Discussing first cycles is definitely not against the rules (discussing brands and sources is), but guys here don’t typically like spoon-feeding info. Do you have a proposed first cycle?

If your bloodwork comes back diagnosing low Test, will you start legit TRT or jump right into a cycle?

#17

Doping to win amateur bike races is pathetic and a slap in the face to those competing clean. Please reconsider how pointless and shitty this is. Train smarter, eat better, hire a coach, get a power meter, recover better, learn to race smarter, throw money at better tires/wheels, but jeez, not this.

1 Like
#18

Ya I don’t think anyone hear will put a cycle together that’s not really how this works.

Secondly if you can’t win an amateur bike race without gear maybe it just isn’t meant to be.

2 Likes
#19

Alright cheers anyway.

As for winning clean… that’s the problem. No one can in this sport. I’ve always been clean and the difference some athletes have is clear. Not gonna have a massive debate about that, but trust me when I say there are basically no bike races amateur or pro being won by a clean athlete. It’s endemic in the sport. I’m residing to if you can’t beat them then join them.

I guess I was looking for advice on a test base with maybe turinabol.

Amounts to use, for how long and what to use when I stop?

Maybe
Test and turinabol cycle.
Followed by chlomid and nolva pct.

But I have no idea on doseages that won’t screw up lipid profiles and actually have a negative effect.

Also I’ve read turinabol isn’t actually manufactured anymore… is the ugl stuff still ok?

#20

Based on your expertise not being able to win a bike race? What level are you even racing at? There’s got to be tons of other stuff you can do to be more competitive.