T Nation

Advice on Upper Lower Split


Hey guys, new to this site, im gonna start doing an upper and lower split and need some advice and your thoughts. It kinda follows the westside system without dynamic effort workouts:

Squat Day:
3x5 Squats
Hamstring Exercise - 3 x 8-12
Traps - Upright close grip row or BB shrugs/Power Shrugs - 3 x 8-12

Bench Day:
3x5 Flat bench
Some form of Row - Barbell, Dumbell - 3x 8-12
Tricep - French Press or rack lockouts - 3x 8-12
Rear Delt - Dumbell power clean or rear flies - 3x8-12

Deadlift Day:
3x5 Dealift
Hamstring Exercise - 3x8-12
Biceps - Barbell Curl or Preacher - 3x8-12

Military Press:
3x5 Standing Military Press
Chest dumbell presses - 3x8-12
Lat Exercise - Pull ups x 3 max or some kind of pulldown 3x8-12
Side Laterals - 3x8-12

If i get stuck on the major lifts than i will swich it around to 5x3 and try to progress. Will i gain strength from this in the 4 major lifts and with good diet, size? Please let me know if this is alright or not. I have been training for a year and a half so im quite aware experience wise but just want to get stronger and if i get bigger then its a bonus. Thanks


Why don't you just follow Westside for skinny bastards? It's simple and from what I've read it works good. What it comes down to is this: there are some very good training programs that work, by doing you own thing you might waste time.


I might give that a read, but would still like some advice on this just so i have options


Why don't you read some good programs first and then consider your own option? You think you can write your own program better than stuff that has already proven itself?


Im looking at WSFSB now and ive tried 5/3/1 and didnt mind it, but i find i progress a lot more on 5x5 or 3x5 king of programs. Dont wanna do bill starr or staring strength cause theyre 3 day programs. Any other recommendations?


Yeah, I have one: leave your fucking ego at the door. The reason you probably didn't great results off of 5/3/1 is because you didn't follow it correctly. Trying to write your own powerlifting program is just retarded. Some people can write their own according to their own weaknesses, but there aren't many of those out there. There's a reason why there are other programs out there: to help other lifters. Powerlifting is a sport of comradarie and I bet anyone on here is willing to help you if you just listen. The traditional West-Side is a great program and so is WS4SB. If you've already run 5/3/1, and don't wanna run Starting Strength or Bill Starr's 5x5, then West-Side and WS4SB are your only other options.



I might give wendlers another go with 2 assistance exercises. They have to be 5x10 for assitance dont they?


The more you post, the more inexperienced you look to me. I would definitely go for a program like starting strength if I were you. You probably think that lifting three days a week isn't enough but it is when you do it right and learn what works in the proces.


im not weak, just want a new program


Why do you want a new program?
What are you current lifts?
What is your current weight/height?
What are your goals?
What is your lifting experience?
Why are you against lifting 3 times a week?

Your program above isn't anything like westside so I wouldn't call it that or even mention it.


im 95kg with 13% bf, bench is 105kg, squat 120kg and deadlift 150kg and 175cm tall. been training for 1 and a half yrs. i look a lot stronger than i am and just want to get stronger. i used to be very fat so 3 days doesnt seem like much to me, even though i know a lot about barbell exercises and how much it takes out of u 3 days a week but prefer 4 day, so its either 5 3 1 again with 2 assistance or another option or someone experienced please tell me what i should do just to gain strength and keep my size, i have a good diet so keeping size isnt a problem


Your idea of a "good diet" is probably not so good based on your experience. I've seen plenty of people that think they have good diets when in all reality they're crap. How are you testing your bf?

Since your strength isn't that great, 5/3/1 or starting strength is where you should go. Follow it exactly.

How long did you previously stay on 5/3/1?


Na i got a good diet, got given by one of australias pro powerlifter/bodybuilder, im sure about that, thats how i managed to gain a lot of size. Only for a around a month and a bit, but i think ill get on it. How many assistance should i do, the 2 assistance one? or Big but boring? and is it 5x10 or can it be 3 sets? (wondering)


You just said you were fat....so if you gained a lot of size on this "awesome" diet and most of it was fat, it doesn't sound very good.

You stayed on 5/3/1 for a month and a half? That wouldn't even have you passing your previous lifts. Stay on it, don't get off for 6-12 months. Last time I ran it I stayed on for 9 months or so and put around 200 lbs on my total.

Just do Big but boring since you probably can't figure out your weaknesses and how to pick apart your lift to warrant doing triumvirate. Do the 5x10.


Sorry i used to be, then lost the weight, then started training and gained lean muscle with this diet. So i wouldnt benefit from 2 assistance exercises? Thats an impressive gain! I will stick to 5x10.


You're over thinking this big time. Just stick with what's simple. You could benefit from 2 assistance exercises and you could benefit from BBB. There are many ways to do things. I say stick with BBB for you since you're new to lifting and you'll gain neural efficiency from the increased reps in the big lifts.


Ok thanks for the help! Will start wendlers again considering so many people have good things to say about it on the site