T Nation

Advice on Tweaking Protocol, Bloods Inside


#1

Ok so i am on daily transdermal cream applied to scrotum (have been for about a year now)

Cream consists of

  • Testosterone 65mg/1g
  • DHEA 25mg/1g

I currently measure this using a scale accurate to 3 decimal points at 0.7g per dose

I also nightly take 50mg pregnenolone

At the time of the blood test I was attempting to find a dose where arimidex was not required so hadn’t had arimidex in 10 days

Testosterone 30.7 nmol/L (10.0-32)
Free Test 855 pmol/L (150-620)
ALBUMIN 39 g/L (35-50)
SHBG(Abbott) 27 nmol/L (11-78)
Oestradiol 114 pmol/L (40-162)
Progesterone 0.8 nmol/L <3.0-

also had full blood count (all normal)
still waiting on dht results

So the two things that stood out are the high e2 and the high free testosterone (related?). At the time of the test I definitely knew going in my e2 felt high, was some anxiety etc.

So based on results my plan is to restart the arimidex at 0.25mg every 3 days (i was at one stage on eod and got too low).

Would this be the only adjustment I need? Any other suggestions or interpretations of results. Is the progesterone high enough?

Thanks.


#2

Working quite well.

FT is nice and not a problem. FT levels vary greatly after application and levels reported are greatly a function of lab timing. As your SHBG levels are good, TT is a good measure of your average T status.

Target is E2=80 pmol/L
so you are not far off, try a small dose if you want. But if libido is good and you feel good, maybe you do not need. But if you try and feel better …

DHT should be strong with that application. Some implications for hair loss in those with the genetics for that. Otherwise more DHT can be good for libido.

Progesterone is low in males and I do not know that optimal would be. In the adrenals, progesterone–>cortisol. If AM cortisol is good, then probably no concern. AM cortisol is done at 8AM or 1 hour after waking up.

I would not apply DHEA and T creams to the same location where they will compete for absorption. Inner fore arms are a good location. In USA, oral 25mg DHEA is dirt cheap. Where are you? Oral may be less expensive.

Are your testes getting smaller and/or scrotum is not hanging?
Is fertility a concern?
No one is concerned with T transfer to wife/GF? I think that USA FDA has discouraged the practice for obvious reasons. A little T can often be beneficial to women…

Big emphasis on thyroid and iodine deficiencies here.
Note that Vit-D is very important via Vit-D25 hormone.

Often transdermal T absorption does not work very well. You are an exception. There is a lot of bio-identical voodoo out there, I want to point out that injected T esters are a time release bio-identical T delivery system as the ester groups are stripped off.

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Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

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#3

Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it.

But if libido is good and you feel good, maybe you do not need

Yeah i definitely did not feel good, anxious, bloated etc I knew going in it was high. Am definitely feeling better since I have started back on arimidex. Will trial the E3D and see how I go.

Progesterone is low in males and I do not know that optimal would be. In the adrenals, progesterone–>cortisol. If AM cortisol is good, then probably no concern. AM cortisol is done at 8AM or 1 hour after waking up.

Yeah reason I wonder about this is because progesterone can help reduce the conversion to DHT which is higher when applying cream to testes. I just have no idea what the ideal range is for this protection.

I would not apply DHEA and T creams to the same location where they will compete for absorption. Inner fore arms are a good location. In USA, oral 25mg DHEA is dirt cheap. Where are you? Oral may be less expensive.

I am in australia and DHEA here is prescription only.

No one is concerned with T transfer to wife/GF? I think that USA FDA has discouraged the practice for obvious reasons. A little T can often be beneficial to women…

The cream is pretty rapidly absorbed and as it is applied to testes first thing in the morning after shower there is little to no chance of transference. At night I usually shower as soon as I get home so if there’s any wife time later I am already clear.

Are your testes getting smaller and/or scrotum is not hanging?
Is fertility a concern?

We already have a child and no plans for another so fertility not a concern (in fact wife wants me to have a vasectomy). Testes have definitely shrunk. Doesn’t bother me.

Big emphasis on thyroid and iodine deficiencies here.
Note that Vit-D is very important via Vit-D25 hormone.

Thyroid and Vit D have been checked in past and come up good. Vit D I get plenty of in our sun as I ride to and from work each day and do walks on weekends. Our sun is good all year around. I also do multivitamin, magnesium, zma, fish oil, vit c every night.

Often transdermal T absorption does not work very well. You are an exception. There is a lot of bio-identical voodoo out there, I want to point out that injected T esters are a time release bio-identical T delivery system as the ester groups are stripped off.

I think the cream is better for this than the gel as it’s my understanding the gel can cause toughening/hardening of the skin which reduces absorption over time, though the gel does release slower so would be better in that regard. Issue is Australia have come down hard on doctors prescribing T so I am lucky to find a doctor at all that will even prescribe it. He won’t do injections as he believes that will red flag him so a compounded cream is what I have to accept.

Thanks again for the feedback.


#4

Hi @testbar Another aussie here, where are you? If you close to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or Perth you should be able access Dr Adrian Zentner from WA. he travels around Australia putting guys in inject-able T. Look him up on youtube, also his surgery is called point walter medical. I was on the gel from a GP that had no idea, would never go back. But it did work for me, I got up to 38, but still felt shit as I wasn’t on a AI.


#5

I’m in Sydney. Ok thanks for the heads up, will look into it! One thing that worries me is my current GP is very old so I might be in trouble if he retires (or dies). Though I’m not too unhappy with my current protocol, I was trying to see if I could avoid AI, but I think I am just going to accept it will be necessary for now and just try and find that perfect dose range. Luckily I recently found a private bloods lab which means I can now get more regular bloods to experiment and find the perfect protocol.


#6

Yeah I’m also worried if something happened to the Doctor. I’m currently in the process of mixing my Ai in vodka and taking a measured dose. Trying for 0.3mg twice per week and see where that puts me next week. I was down to 45 E2 and felt awful taking half AI twice a week. Was at 145 before I started an AI. So I’ve been on a bit of a E2 rollercoaster. Its definitely a slow process but I’ve seen some decent gains. Long way to go. Also the primoteston and AI is very cheap.