T Nation

Advice on Training and Nutrition


#1

Hi everyone, I’m new here and was hoping for some expert advice if poss.
There are so many threads on here so apologies if these questions have already been answered.

My current gym schedule is a 6am fasted training session including lifting for mass and ending with a HIIT treadmill workout for fat loss.

Firstly, do you agree that training combo works? And secondly I’m looking for that holy grail of building muscle mass and losing as much fat as possible, hence my routine, assuming I’m doing it right? I seem quite hesitant on nutrition throughout the day as well…after a fasted workout as above I usually have a whey isolate shake, a banana and then 40g of oats with water. Lunch is a Thai Red chicken curry with lots of spinach and a small amount of plain rice. Dinner is normally something low carb and another whey shake.

Am I hindering my goals here? I don’t know if my routine is OK coupled with my nutrition for fat loss and gaining some muscle?..if I’m honest my main target is to lose fat but I would really like the weight training to pay off with building some muscle.

Is both things possible or should I do one or the other?

Thank


#2

I trained fasted for a large part of the recent past (including a largish dinner). Have a whey shake and banana on the way to the gym.


#3

Nah mane.

Holy grail…Extremely difficult nigh impossible to do the two at once unless you are using Soviet Sports Supplements, a beginner to lifting, starting off pretty fat or returning from a lengthy layoff. If you do achieve it the overall rate of progress will be so slow it be 30 years before you get sexy.

What does that even mean lel.

To lose weight you need to consistently be in a caloric deficit.

Wut you eat is of low importance when dieting for body composition. You could eat McDonalds and lose weight or gain weight while dieting on broccoli.

To maximise favourable changes in body composition in a massing or cutting phase e.g. Retain muscle during a cut you’ll need to be eating sufficient protein approximately 1g/lb of bodyweight. Also bulking/cutting slowly will facilitate favourable changes in body composition.

Choose one. Do it properly. Alternate until you have achieved desired sexiness.

If you have to train early morning fast stuff e.g. whey protein shakes, simple sugars, preformulated sports drinks etc. should be consumed


#4

Thanks for the reply khangles, appreciate it.

I guess what I mean by being hesitant with my nutrition is wanting to eat the carbs and simple sugars for building muscle but being afraid to eat them due to halting fat loss from a workout. I need to stop the overthinking and do as you advised, stick to one thing and do it properly! I’ll go with mass building first and alternate later on I think and see how I get on.

I’m not in the best shape, I do need to shift some fat but hoping if i carry on as I am, it’ll pay off eventually.

Also any advice on supplements would be good. I heard BCAA’s are best for fasted workouts as it can stop you burning through muscle during your workout?

Thanks again


#5

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.
My issue with eating before a morning fasted workout was that I thought it would stop the fat burning process? again i’m overthinking it…:frowning:


#6

If doing HIIT on top of lifting I would get in a pre/intra workout drink , like BCAAs/Leucine and karbolyn /Surge Workout etc

Age? Its possible if under say 25


#7

In one.

Personally, I would not ever train fasted. Some people do and it works, so obviously it can be done but IMO more hassle than it is worth. Kind of like being vegetarian.


#8

I was going to like your post, but my wife is vegetarian…


#9

I never said going vegetarian was a bad idea, just involves more work :joy: and I’m sure your good lady isn’t a hassle at all.


#10

Thanks for the reply, I’ll take a look at those supps. I’m 36 so probably not quite in the easy zone for this to work but I’ll see how I go for a few months


#11

Thanks for the reply. I’ll experiment with the fasted training for a couple of months and if that doesn’t work I’ll switch it up. I do struggle with losing fat easily


#12

Get on a lifting program and stick with it. Do some cardio 3-4 days a week. Eat plenty of protein, vegetables and limit the junk. Make sure you stay at a slight calorie deficit. Focus supplements on protein and creatine. Don’t train fasted unless that really doesn’t interfere with intensity, and make sure you consume plenty of protein afterwards. Do all that consistently week after week.


#13

And than

It still looks like you are trying to get the best of both worlds.

There is a way to put on mass with minimal fat gain but doing fasted lifting sessions is not desirable. To gain mass you need intensity and progressive overload (weights keep getting heavier or more of it). Doing that while you are fasting or starving not only is difficult but can be dangerous due to low blood sugar and poor decision making.

If you want to do it properly you will need to track your calories. Find your maintenance calories (may take a month or more), than slowly increase by 100-200 calories a week/fortnight. Do this slowly so you can see the changes of your body and on the scale.

I’m not sure of your ‘lifting level’ so it’s tough to say how much to expect to put on.

2-3 pounds a month if you are a relative beginner lifter.

1-2 pounds a month if you have been at it awhile.

These are just rough guidelines. Everone is different and even with this conservative approach you will still put on small amounts of fat.


#14

I’d say the answer to all of you questions is, “Maybe.” Do you know how many calories you are currently eating? How much protein/carbs/fat? How much are you looking to lose? What time frame? What is your training like? Etc.

Before worrying about BCAA’s, leucine, fasted training, etc, make sure you know where you are currently. All the BCAA’s in the world won’t help if you are eating way over or way under what you should be or if you’re not training consistent with your goals.

Ben


#15

You can’t technically do both at once. But you can make it appear that way. That’s the trick :wink:

Idk what you mean by “I’m out of shape.” You’re fat? Slow? Weak? That’s a broad statement.

I’m going to assume excess body fat. Start off building muscle. Muscle creates metabolism. The more muscle, the more calories you’ll burn in your sleep. So at least add 10lbs of lean muscle mass.

As far fasted training. Want to be small and weak? I used to train at 5am. Not my cup of tea, because I have to eat before I lift. But if I eat to soon, I’ll throw up while I train. Because I train intense. So I’d get up at 3am. Slowly, lol. Cook food, shower, let food digest. Train at 5.
You don’t have to get up at 3. But I suggest oatmeal with a couple eggs or steak. Whole food over liquid and liquid will make you feel hungrier as you lift. But whichever works for you. Just eat. You can’t grow if you don’t eat.

How much you weigh? Have a gut? Big gut? Little gut? No gut?

Also, what I like to do, is wake up, bust out 50-100 air squats and 50-100 jumping jacks. Empty stomach. Then eat, then go to the gym. Doing that workout will make you more insulin sensitive. It’ll wake up your brain and central nervous system. It’ll get your blood flowing and make your training session better


#16

Wow, that’s dedication man! :slight_smile:

Sorry for not being clearer. I do indeed have a gut, I have too much fat around my stomach and face…I don’t have much fat anywhere else on my body but this is my fault from being inactive for nearly 2 years, eating rubbish and not looking after myself very well. I’m not huge, in fact i’m fairly light with not very much muscle at all (36 years old, weigh 190lbs and i’m 5ft 9in tall) I’m 3 weeks into the gym and i’m good with routine providing i have everything planned out ie food, workouts etc…In my initial post i said my main aim is to lose fat, which I suppose i would love to achieve, but i think I would now like to focus and put everything into building muscle (having read some great replies so far)

I’ve been told to look at a macro based food plan and I came up with the following for daily intake:
Carbs = 295g
Protein = 190g (1g for each lb of body weight)
Fat = 67g

If i stick to these targets and keep hitting heavy weights 3-4 times a week, would you agree that i’m on the right path? And i will now make sure my early morning workouts are fuelled properly :slight_smile:

Cheers


#17

Cheers for the reply Ben. I’m looking to try a macro based eating plan coupled with heavy lifting and hoping that this split will work:
Daily intake:
Carbs = 295g
Protein = 190g (1g for each lb of body weight)
Fat = 67g

I want to be in shape for next July (wedding - gulp) BUT i do want this as a lifestyle change too.

My training currently is lifting as heavy as poss on 2 muscle groups at a time 4 days a week and ending with a HIIT treadmill workout of 10-15 minutes

Cheers


#18

That actually looks kind of decent to me. Pretty similar to what I did, and it worked. I would suggest dropping the HIIT to once a week and then once or twice a week doing something like incline treadmill walking for around 10-15 minutes. If your rest breaks while lifting are kept quite short, that should be ample to get you moving in the right direction.

When you do need to drop calories so it in 100 cal/day decrements. Try to keep your fats above 50 grams, your carbs as high as possible and your protein no less than 0.8 grams/lb bodyweight. That actually gives you lots of room to move, and over the time you have probably around three drops.


#19

Cheers for the reply…I’ve now got to try and meal plan every day to hit my macros. Should be interesting! :slight_smile:


#20

Biggest thing you can do to make that easier is pick and/or figure out foods that are cheap, easy to prepare and that you’re happy to eat day after day.

For example, my breakfast is usually a 200 gram basa fillet fried in olive oil, 75 grams of oats, 80 grams of Nutrigrain or Milo flakes, a couple of tablespoons of Hershey’s chocolate topping, 350 mL whole milk and some cinnamon. That only changes if I’m eating out or training later in the day. I don’t need to think about it. I just make it.

For meats I tend to rotate: corned beef, pork loins, pork scotch fillet, chicken thighs, or whatever is on special and reasonably lean.

If you get your roster of foods sorted, everything becomes a ton easier.