T Nation

Advice on This New Split?


#1

I haven't done a split routine in a while and I threw one back together today. Similar to my old one, i just tweaked some things after reading a lot of stuff on IBB.

Chest/Tris

Low Incline Bench
4-8x6-8

Flat Bench
4-8x8-10

Dips from Dead Start
4-8x6-8

PJR's
4-8x8-10 (or 10-12)

Back

Deadlift
2-4x6-8 (warm my back up good)

Rack Pull
4-8x6-8

Underhand Barbell Rows
4-8x8-10

Rack Pullups
4-8x8-10

OFF

Shoulders/Bi

High Incline Shoulder Press from eye level
4-8x6-8

Military Press
4-8x8-10

Side Raises
2-4x10-12 (or 8-10 maybe)

Wide-grip BB Curls
4-8x8-10

Incline Curls
4-8x6-8

Reverse EZ Bar Curls
4-8x10-12

Legs

Don't really have any questions about leg day. My last split routine had my leg day set up according to my crappy knees so I'll just keep it.

Missing anything? Advice? Suggestionss? Not enough? Too much?

I'm about 5' 10", 205. Cracking down on my diet more than I ever have.


#2

Maybe its because I am hungry and sleepy like hell,but I cannot summon enough brainpower to remember what a PJR (on chest day) is.

Anyway, looks cool, how well did your old split work for you?


#3

Chest/tri day- Wheres the tris? The tri is a large component of a good looking arm, its going to need more attention than that.

Shoulders/bi- You have no rear delt period, 2 compound presses, and 1 lateral head isolation.
So 1) you need rear delt moves, 2) Your front head is the primary mover in Overhead presses, and also the front head is the easiest to work/most eager to jump into other movements to lend a hand. id ditch 1 press, pick up another lat head movement, and add 2 rear delt movements. Id also prolly throw in a couple more forearm.


#4

Read the "Cannon ball delts" thread that Akuma started. It has changed how I hit my shoulders dramatically.


#5

thats exactly what I was thinking?


#6

Welcome back, howie.

He does dead stop dips and PJR's for tris... Only 2 movements the whole week is perhaps a bit on the low side.

Anyway... Give us an update howie, what're your status now? Did you stop lifting or did life get in the way or something, or did you lift throughout your time away from here? I don't really remember your numbers (all our old pm's are long gone), that's why I'm asking.


#7

Thank you CC and others.

Life did get a bit in the way a while ago where I sort of quit using the last split that you set me up with CC. I tried IBB for a phase but wasn't really finding myself able to dedicate the money and time, so I decided to stick with something that I'm use to, a split routine.

I see that I'm missing a lot of things. You taught me a lot CC, but as you said our old pm's are long gone. I'm also a bit confused as how to go about my sets/reps after reading/doing IBB for a bit. I know most of you will think I'm an idiot for that, but the way CC taught me warm-up sets, compared to IBB principles and such, are very much different.

But I see I also need to tweak my exercise selection a bit. I can dig through my logs and find the most recent version of my last split (changed here and there throughout the last couple years).

I have finally overcome a lot of obstacles that I was having trouble with (although facing new ones), but have decided that working out and diet are one thing that I can't let go. I just need to get a good split going before I become overwhelmed with it.

There was nothing wrong with my last split by any means, I am just mostly confused about reps/sets after reading all the articles affiliated with IBB.


#8

Well you can do alot of different things with your sets/reps. What I picked up from IBB, CT, HTH is that you should keep warm ups to enough to get loose, not fatigued, and prime the nervous system.

So if Low Inc Press is your main chest exercise, then I would use 3-5 reps of as many sets as it takes to work up to your heavy sets of 6-8. From there do whatever you want. Wave sets, straight sets, flat pyramid.

The way I set things up (for main exercise), is ramp up to a heavy set going to near failure, then two or so back off sets.


#9

What I did before reading I,BODYBUIDLER and CT's articles was something like this for lets say, low incline press.

1x8 - 95
1x5 - 135
1x3 - 185
1x6-8 - 225
1x6-8 - 230

After reading up;

1x5 - lets say 95
1x5 - 105

1x6-8 - 135
1x6-8 - 145
1x6-8 - 155

Etc etc for 4-8 sets, or until my set/rep quality goes down.

When someone tells me to "work up" to a workset of lets say 225, the thought that goes through my head is doing warm up sets up to 215, and then starting my work sets, but by then I am feeling fatigued obviously, and therefore leading to grinding reps.


#10

OK so here's my input.

  1. If you are doing something like...

Chest/Tris
Back
Off
Shoulders/Bi
Legs
Off
Repeat

... i.e. a 4-way split, over 6 days, that frequency is decent but I would add one more exercise in for triceps. Something like Kneeling French Press w/ Rope for higher reps at the end of the PJRs/Tricep Dips. Something like 12-20 reps. Maybe even some Rest-Pause action.

  1. For Low-Incline Bench, I (personally) would shoot for a 3-5 RM. And then follow that up with higher rep DB flat bench. Same for triceps... Go heavy on Dips, and then stick to the 12-15 rep range for PJRs (don't want to go to heavy on those, as CC recommends). Then higher rep tricep cable push-downs/whatever you choose. Go for the pump on this one.

  2. I like you back day, but if you feel your Bi's taking over on the Underhand BB Rows, then go pronated.

  3. Shoulder day... No need to do both SHIPs and Military Presses. Stick with SHIPs, then either do one of the following: do a front raise with DBs, or if your front delts are fine, do some Rear Delt Flies with DBs if you feel you need it. Or you can do neither... you're front delts are hit pretty good from chest, and your rear delts are hit pretty good on back day. It's up to you really, but I personally wouldn't waste my energy on them.

  4. For Biceps, you may want to switch one of those lifts out for one that has a hard force curve at the beginning of the movement... i.e. EZ-bar Preacher Curls, for 4-6 reps. And then you can do 2 others.

  5. Not too big of a deal, but I'm not a fan of Bi's after Shoulders. I feel weak on them since some flexion of the shoulders are involved in some Curl movements. I would prefer Chest/Bis, then Shoulders/Tris. Again, not a big deal.

Best of luck.


#11

All very helpful Andy.

Only question for you is, what would you prefer over this split, 3-day split? Or would it really make a difference.

Also, all you suggest for shoulders is High Incline Press (from eye level, or full range of motion?)


#12

A 3-way or 4-way split won't make TOO much of a difference, but since you are 5'10" at 205, I would say that you still have some room for growth with the 3-way split before you need to move on with the 4-way split. Essentially, a 3-way split compared to the 4-way split, is slightly more frequency and slightly less volume, which someone who still has room to grow can be very effective.

In a 3-way my favorite probably is:

  1. Chest/Bis/Tris
  2. Legs, calves, abs if you want
  3. Off
  4. Shoulders/Back
  5. Off
    Repeat

Or,

  1. Chest/Bis
  2. Legs, calves, abs if you want
  3. Off
  4. Back/Shoulders/Tris
  5. Off
    Repeat

Or,

  1. Chest/Back
  2. Legs, calves, abs if you want
  3. Off
  4. Shoulders/Bis/Tris
  5. Off
    Repeat

Basically you pick 2 or so main movements that you can grow on for each body part, so each workout has anywhere from 4-6 lifts. On leg day, I am of the group that thinks less is more... for example, I think going hard on Front Squats is all you need for big quads (for now at your stage). So it could look like:

A. Front Squats (heavy)/Olympic Squat
B. Good Mornings/RDL/SLDL/etc (think hip extension)
C. GHR/Leg Curls/whatever (think knee flexion)
D. Throw in some higher-rep leg press/hack squat machine/leg extensions if you want... not really necessary IMO.
E1. Standing calves
E2. Abs

....

Going to eye-level on SHIPs is fine, it's really up to you and how comfortable you are going down really low. For your shoulders question, a good shoulder session to me is some sort of heavy press (i.e. Seated Behind-the-Neck Press, Push Press, Military Press, SHIPs), followed by a superset of L-Lateral Raises (or other lateral movement), and either a rear-delt movement if you need it, or something like the Muscle Snatch to fatigue the shoulders.


#13

Howie, how's your diet these days? Can you get your protein intake up to 1.5+ grams per lb on a consistent basis? Got some money for a few basic supps?

How man days do you have per week/how much time per day for training?

Post some current pics, even if you aren't nearly at your best or anything... Let's see if there are any real weak areas we have to keep in mind for exercise selection etc...


#14

To answer CC's question real quick.

My diet is looking good IMO. I do what I can to make sure I am getting 1.5+ per pound. My diet consists of a lot of chicken/fish/eggs/beef for protein, and oatmeal/rice/taters when I have them for carbs. Other things thrown in there are some dairy products and I like to have a fiber bar with my protein shakes (just something I enjoy :P, a few extra calories too I suppose).

As far as supps go, I use Surge Recovery pre and during my workout, and I use Grow! Whey. That's about all I need for supps IMO, never had real great success with anything else.

Also, I can take some pictures tomorrow when I have access to a better mirror. Any particular angles? I'm not too familiar with poses.


#15

Back double bi, front double bi, side tri, side leg, front leg, rear lat spread.

You can do a most-muscular too if you want.

What about time/days for training per week?


#16

Right now I'm working out on the weekdays in the morning. I go in around 6, and try to be out a little after 7 or 7:15 so I can get some breakfast in before work at 8.

I find that I can keep my lifting more consistent if I do it in the morning, seeings as I always have the same work start time, but when I get off fluctuates day to day.


#17

Okay, so that's 5 days per week, or could you go in on sundays or saturdays as well?


#18

If I must, I will. I prefer taking the weekend off from working out/working. I like to let my stress levels and my mind/body settle down a little bit.


#19

Understood. Hmm, 5 days may even be enough... Do you have my e-mail adress? (just say yes or no, don't post it on here :slight_smile:


#20

No sir, I do not.