T Nation

Advice on Starting TRT with HCG and Clomid?

I’d appreciate some advice thanks from anyone successfully using testosterone and going off cycle. I am 59 with a low level of test and doctor (female) said its the normal range for my age yet I see and feel the low effects in many ways. I recently used 5ml of a 10ml vial of test cypionate over a couple of months and got concerned with Testicle shrinkage and stopped after the doctor told me all the bad things of usage. I didn’t research enough before using the product as did not use a pct when stopping the test cypionate. My test levels were so long and I felt as low as they were. I found the benifits of being on cycle were brilliant as I was working out and felt 20 years better in recovery and lifting as I had just started working out again. I researched that you could use HCG while on cycle and when off cycle take clomid as a pct. My theory is to go on cycle for about a year and lose weight and the estrogenic effects to help with other issues such as diabetes type two. Ive seen a clip of a guy from England go on cycle for 18 months with a heap of other products like deca and trest and use pct’s to stave off effects of estrogen. I am concerned about my body producing its own test again and to protect my testilces so they dont shrink into raisens. I am also concerned of my body starting up again in test production. I’d really appreciate advice from someone who has been on cycle for a year or more and then came off and how they managed along the way.

You’re not really making a lot of sense, but I’ll take a stab anyway. What is your dose of testosterone? When did you stop? Why do you care about PCT at 59 years old? Why do you think that you need to cycle? What, exactly, are the bogeyman effects that you have been informed of regarding test usage? What were your test levels before taking Test cypionate?

“I used 5mls over about 7 weeks 120ml per week.”
You give more information in posts where you’re hijacking a thread than in your own thread. If you’re using 200mg/1mL strength, you either have a lot of waste or you were using closer to 140 mg per week. So, using testosterone for weight loss is irresponsible, you’re messing with hormones and can do permanent damage. Testicle shrinkage is normal when using exogynous test, but it’s not usually really pronounced. People use HCG to avoid the shrinkage. If you goal is to cycle steroids, you should be in the Pharma category asking questions not in TRT. What you want to do is called PCT. Look it up. It involves using either Clomid or Nolvadex, and starts 2 to 3 weeks after your last shot of test. Clomid would dose at 50 mg a day for a week, then 25 mg a day for 2 weeks, then 12.5 mg a day for a week. Or something similar. You do not use HCG while using the Clomid. You will have significantly more estrogen (in the form of estradiol) while using testosterone, just so you know. You also are very unlikely to return to the same level of test production that you had before using, it will likely be a little lower and will certainy be lower for a while after the PCT.

Thanks for your reply and sorry if i was a bit vague with info, ive been looking for answers as in Australia and doctors here know nothing and booking me for endo who from what I have read just little as well. Your info read well and this was the first forum ive been on and a bit desperate for info. My trt is low according to test and im thinking its related to general health so i tried half a 10ml vial over a few weeks using 120mg/l per week, and I crashed when coming off. Blood test showed level at 11 and doctor said my age range would be between 9-35 measurement, so i recognise its at the lower end and I feel the effects of that and have for some years.I didnt do any research as was suggested by a friend to go this way as he is on trt and didn’t inform me of side effects and I found out the hard way with shrinkage. I will look into the hcg and clomid suggestion.Sorry if I high-jacked the thread, I just have a few health issues and trying to work through things and you wrote from an informed position. All the best to you.

No worries, we just need information to give decent advice. Actual lab numbers with ranges are nice, we’ll convert as necessary. If you don’t like atrophy, use HCG, every other day 250iu is fairly standard. Generally it’s best to use the test by itself first before adding other things. After about three weeks your natural production stops, so stopping the injections will leave you flat, It will restart on its own eventually, usually.
I’m guessing you’re anxious, you posted in quite a few threads.

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Thanks buddy again for your reply and anxiety is right in there as I try to work through for the best way forward. Have also been concerned about shrinkage and trying working out if my own system would kick back in. Thanks for explaining about hcg and clomid. As mentioned this is my first use of a forum and have asked a few questions elsewhere as you have noticed. I know for the weeks I used the test cyp, it was the best Id felt all round mentally and physically in many years. My thoughts from this experience and low levels has me thinking this is the way forward for a time and if my theory works, then after losing a great deal of weight and sorting out other health issues, I could possibly have my own levels come up. Just uncertain and doctors don’t prescribe test here and waiting to see endo though uncertain how that will go. Ill post results from last test when I can and see if that shows my levels. I’m really trying to weight up going down this road of treatment and I have seen others make similar comments. Thank you again.

Australia is tough, but there are guys with prescription.

Thanks will see how I go with Endo in couple of weeks.

Why not just go on TRT permanently and forget about it? Especially at age 59? When you go off, you have nothing to “recover” and you’ll just go back to feeling as you did previously. Stay on, if 120mg did the trick stay there, and feel good all of the time.

If this doctor doesn’t work out, consider Adrian Zentner in Perth, Brisbane or Dr Zentner in Melbourne. These guys are on top of their game when it comes to TRT.

I’m going to agree with others, your 59 years old and expected to have low testosterone at this age, so any natural recover at this age without TRT is just not going to happen.

Hey there systemlord, thank you so much for your advice and details of this doctor here in Australia. I am going to get an appointment and think about cancelling the endo I have booked to see. From your comments and other observations of my own, I see the medical doctors don’t have a clue and always look at that area last if at all. I have read some of your comments in other posts and see the pattern from many of them and that seems to be the way here as well. My first bloods for test showed:
Albumin at 41 g/l 35-50
Testosterone 11 nmol/l 9-35
Sex hormone Binding Glob 51 nmo1/L 10-50
Free test 167 pmo1/L >110

After the crash of coming off Test cypionate
Test 6.8 nmo1/L 9.0-35
SHBG 44 nmo1/L 10-50
Free Test calculated 108 pmol1/L >110
The first test that showed my level at 11 and female doctor said that was normal to which I thought it was low as i have felt effects for years. I have spoken about this on other comments.
Thank you again for your comments and I will be chasing Dr Zentner as has found his details. Your sight provides much informative comments from other men with this issue and am grateful to have had the response from others as well. Best regards to all.

Unfortunately this is very common, sex hormones is just not discussed in medical school and almost no one understand male sex hormones these days, it’s been ignored for so long. The thing that gets my me all riled up is doctors almost never consider the age of someone when assessing their testosterone levels.

The reference ranges don’t break patients down by age or health status, a 30 year old man with the levels of an 80 year old diabetic with heart disease is told that his T levels are fine because they’re within the “normal” range. If you’re 30, but have the same testosterone level as an 80 year old diabetic with heart disease, things are not fine.

Most medical doctors just don’t know a thing about TRT, all they know is in-range is normal, it’s not something they normally prescribe and their knowledge is limited.

I think there should be some must read in the subforum explaining about the “normal” hormonal levels and the doctors stupidity.

I see every new guy here is confused because of that and you or some other person explaining it over and over again. Me also when I joined the forum, had some idea but was not sure about that staff with the so called “normal” levels.

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You are brilliant my friend and so good speaking with someone who understands this issue as you do. Your comments and feedback have really encouraged me and I’m looking to see how I can see Dr Zenter sooner than later. I have a few friends in mid 60’s and they have had same symptomatology as I have and they are looking into it. What this shows is the total lack of medical credibility with doctors in this area and i’m sure many other areas as well. Best regards to you.

Your situation is simple, bro. It is simple because at your age basically you dont have other options except to start TRT to feel optimal. It is simple because you cannot hope to optimize natural production and Im almost sure you dont care about fertility. For example these two is what’s stopping me to start TRT.

The only thing you should consider is to find a really knowledgeable doctor to manage your hormonal optimization. If in your country they are all shit, you can work remotely with some of the Americans who really know this stuff. So go ahead and dont hesitate.

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Thanks for your positive reply to what I have posted and I am chasing up on someone here in Australia now as systemlord gave a reference to a doctor here thats works in the trt area. Will see how it all goes and appreciate your encouraging comments as well. All the best to you.