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Advice on Speed Work


#1

How do I incorporate speed work into my split? What's an example of sets/reps for an exercise? Like deadlifts, or bench. Do I need to use bands? Basically, what does speed work consist of, other than lifting as fast as you can.


#2

Look up Louie Simmons or Westside Barbell for dynamic effort training. He’s the popular name in speed stuff.

Good luck.


#3

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Look up Louie Simmons or Westside Barbell for dynamic effort training. He’s the popular name in speed stuff.

Good luck.

[/quote]
Alright I will, thanks!


#4

[quote]Confinative wrote:
How do I incorporate speed work into my split? What’s an example of sets/reps for an exercise? Like deadlifts, or bench. Do I need to use bands? Basically, what does speed work consist of, other than lifting as fast as you can. [/quote]

Nothing can beat listening/talking to Lou himself and, from what I hear, the man is more than willing to speak directly with anyone who simply email/calls him directly.

With that said, traditional speedwork for squats would be off of a box (with some form of accommodating resistance) ramping up the percentages by five percent in three-week waves. So a wave might look like 50% on week one, 55% on week two, and 60% in week three. After those three weeks you would either change the depth of the squat (i.e. lower/higher box), your stance (i.e. closer/wider), put more/less accomodating resistance on the bar, or switch the bar entirely.

Traditional deadlifting will really vary depending on what works for you. I know the Westside guys tend to favor singles though because that’s how you are going to need the strength in a competition and can range anywhere from 9-15 singles with anywhere from 50-75% straight-weight on the bar.

Bench, from the last interview I heard with A.J. Roberts, doesn’t wave anymore and is typically 55-60% of what you can bench or maybe even a little higher of what you can floor press.

As it relates to incorporating speedwork into your programming, you could plan your split like a traditional Westside week (see below):

Monday: Max Effort lower body working up to a 1-5rm on a Squat, Deadlift or GM variant
Wednesday: Max Effort upper working up to a 1-5rm on a bench variant
Friday: Dynamic Effort (speedwork) lower hitting 10-12x2 (for the squat)
Sunday: Dynamic Effort Upper hitting 9x3

Or you could throw it on the days you are already hitting those lifts. If you were pulling that day, pull some speed single to get you primed for your working sets or simply throw it in after the heavy set to really fatigue yourself without having to go super heavy.

As I had said though, man, nothing beats picking up the phone and simply calling Lou. The man has dedicated his life to the sport and is more than willing to talk with anyone interested in hearing. The biggest thing to remember about speedwork though is the intent of the day - speed. If you can move more weight faster, do it. If you are slow, who cares, lower the weight/resistance.

Good luck, brother.


#5

why do you feel that you need speed work?


#6

[quote]matt.t.geer wrote:

[quote]Confinative wrote:
How do I incorporate speed work into my split? What’s an example of sets/reps for an exercise? Like deadlifts, or bench. Do I need to use bands? Basically, what does speed work consist of, other than lifting as fast as you can. [/quote]

Nothing can beat listening/talking to Lou himself and, from what I hear, the man is more than willing to speak directly with anyone who simply email/calls him directly.

With that said, traditional speedwork for squats would be off of a box (with some form of accommodating resistance) ramping up the percentages by five percent in three-week waves. So a wave might look like 50% on week one, 55% on week two, and 60% in week three. After those three weeks you would either change the depth of the squat (i.e. lower/higher box), your stance (i.e. closer/wider), put more/less accomodating resistance on the bar, or switch the bar entirely.

Traditional deadlifting will really vary depending on what works for you. I know the Westside guys tend to favor singles though because that’s how you are going to need the strength in a competition and can range anywhere from 9-15 singles with anywhere from 50-75% straight-weight on the bar.

Bench, from the last interview I heard with A.J. Roberts, doesn’t wave anymore and is typically 55-60% of what you can bench or maybe even a little higher of what you can floor press.

As it relates to incorporating speedwork into your programming, you could plan your split like a traditional Westside week (see below):

Monday: Max Effort lower body working up to a 1-5rm on a Squat, Deadlift or GM variant
Wednesday: Max Effort upper working up to a 1-5rm on a bench variant
Friday: Dynamic Effort (speedwork) lower hitting 10-12x2 (for the squat)
Sunday: Dynamic Effort Upper hitting 9x3

Or you could throw it on the days you are already hitting those lifts. If you were pulling that day, pull some speed single to get you primed for your working sets or simply throw it in after the heavy set to really fatigue yourself without having to go super heavy.

As I had said though, man, nothing beats picking up the phone and simply calling Lou. The man has dedicated his life to the sport and is more than willing to talk with anyone interested in hearing. The biggest thing to remember about speedwork though is the intent of the day - speed. If you can move more weight faster, do it. If you are slow, who cares, lower the weight/resistance.

Good luck, brother.
[/quote]
Wow man, thanks for all the info! That was a really great response. I’m thinking of purchasing some of his lectures when I can. Sometimes the amount of info I get from all different people is overwhelming, I’m just going to follow a Westside plan and stick with it. I appreciate the response, seriously.


#7

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
why do you feel that you need speed work?

[/quote]
I’m trying to get faster off the floor with deadlifts and out of the pit with squats. I’m taking powerlifting more seriously and eventually want to go to meets. I know speed might not fix my issues but it’s one of many solutions I’m going to try!


#8

All laid out here…
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/iron_evolution_phase_6


#9

[quote]Confinative wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
why do you feel that you need speed work?

[/quote]
I’m trying to get faster off the floor with deadlifts and out of the pit with squats. I’m taking powerlifting more seriously and eventually want to go to meets. I know speed might not fix my issues but it’s one of many solutions I’m going to try![/quote]

have a look at “why speed work doesnt work” by mike tuscherer. off the floor with deadlifts is alot of the time form. id tape them and get the form perfect. paused squats, both beltless and with a belt,will help you a thousand times more as a raw lifter than speed work will,and the added quad work/starting strength will help your deadlift


#11

Mike Tuscherer is a smart guy and a good coach. I respect his perspective on speed work but with all things experience related YMMV. I have tried all things to improve the bar moving off the floor with a dead lift and the thing that has helped me most was deadlifting against bands. It is no magic fix for shitty form and poor programming but it has certainly helped me. As with any movement that lacks a concentric portion of the lift any technique that will recruit the most muscles in the quickest time generally helps to improve getting the bar moving. To say otherwise is foolish. This is especially true for us older guys who aren’t as limber and fast as we used to be.
See the thing is everyone fails to realize is that at West-side the average age of the lifter is older and the folks that train there are typically seasoned vets. While the training is geared mostly for them, to improve their numbers, the general premise of Louis conjugate training stand true for most lifters. Yeah I know it’s popular now a days to shit on Louis and say it’s for geared lifters only but that’s usually uttered by people who don’t know any better IMO and don’t try to convince me otherwise because I’ve done this shit first hand. It worked like a champ for me, and raw btw. This ain’t rocket science. It’s picking up a fucking bar for pete’s sake.

as always your opinions and mileage may vary…


#12

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]Confinative wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
why do you feel that you need speed work?

[/quote]
I’m trying to get faster off the floor with deadlifts and out of the pit with squats. I’m taking powerlifting more seriously and eventually want to go to meets. I know speed might not fix my issues but it’s one of many solutions I’m going to try![/quote]

have a look at “why speed work doesnt work” by mike tuscherer. off the floor with deadlifts is alot of the time form. id tape them and get the form perfect. paused squats, both beltless and with a belt,will help you a thousand times more as a raw lifter than speed work will,and the added quad work/starting strength will help your deadlift[/quote]

Would you mind getting on Facebook and messaging this to Sam Byrd. He only squats 830+ at 220 raw and he swears that speed and or CAT squats the most important part of any ones routine. In the off season he almost never goes over 455 and his Squat continued to climb. He only goes heavy say 650+ 6 or so weeks out from meet. With your help he could probably well into the 900s already since what you suggest is 1000x more helpful to a raw lifter.[/quote]

theres a pretty big difference between sam byrd doing that with 455 and this guy doing fucking speed work with 135 lbs. and 60x5x5 with very short breaks isnt really the same as 10x1 or 8x3. CAT squats are good, and are also different to speed work


#13

also, im going to presume that 60% is done with no knee wraps, so its not really 60% is it?


#15

[quote]Paul33 wrote:

[quote]Confinative wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
why do you feel that you need speed work?

[/quote]
I’m trying to get faster off the floor with deadlifts and out of the pit with squats. I’m taking powerlifting more seriously and eventually want to go to meets. I know speed might not fix my issues but it’s one of many solutions I’m going to try![/quote]

have a look at “why speed work doesnt work” by mike tuscherer. off the floor with deadlifts is alot of the time form. id tape them and get the form perfect. paused squats, both beltless and with a belt,will help you a thousand times more as a raw lifter than speed work will,and the added quad work/starting strength will help your deadlift[/quote]
I tend to agree with this. People have obviously been successful with speed work, but if you’re not yet at the point where you’re doing contests, you probably would benefit most from keeping things fairly simple.


#16

[quote]Confinative wrote:
How do I incorporate speed work into my split? What’s an example of sets/reps for an exercise? Like deadlifts, or bench. Do I need to use bands? Basically, what does speed work consist of, other than lifting as fast as you can. [/quote]

I don’t really do speed work. I try and keep the weight in the 70%-90% range and focus on moving singles really fast. It tends to help my technique better than trying to do squat doubles or bench triples at a lighter weight. It also teaches me to explode as hard as possible w/ a heavy weight.

It will also benefit you to pause at the bottom of the squat and bench press. That’s where you want your speed and explosiveness. Focus on exploding w/ sub max weight like its a max effort. Everything you got into each rep focusing on good technique.


#17

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]Confinative wrote:
How do I incorporate speed work into my split? What’s an example of sets/reps for an exercise? Like deadlifts, or bench. Do I need to use bands? Basically, what does speed work consist of, other than lifting as fast as you can. [/quote]

I don’t really do speed work. I try and keep the weight in the 70%-90% range and focus on moving singles really fast. It tends to help my technique better than trying to do squat doubles or bench triples at a lighter weight. It also teaches me to explode as hard as possible w/ a heavy weight.

It will also benefit you to pause at the bottom of the squat and bench press. That’s where you want your speed and explosiveness. Focus on exploding w/ sub max weight like its a max effort. Everything you got into each rep focusing on good technique.
[/quote]
The problem with benches for singles is that I have no spotter or partner so if it’s stuck on my chest I might get hurt. Deadlifts and squats for singles is fine cause worst case scenario I fall, but bench involves a bar over my chest and abdomen so. That’s another reason I was looking at speed!


#18

[quote]Confinative wrote:

[quote]Paul33 wrote:
why do you feel that you need speed work?

[/quote]
I’m trying to get faster off the floor with deadlifts and out of the pit with squats. I’m taking powerlifting more seriously and eventually want to go to meets. I know speed might not fix my issues but it’s one of many solutions I’m going to try![/quote]

I’d look into your form before looking into anything else. And this is coming from someone who uses speed work as a staple. And as Paul said, it could easily be your quads. I like front squats and narrow stance high bar squats as assistance for bringing that up.

And you have a lot of options for speed work. It can be easy to be overwhelmed. You could do something as simple as work in some plyos like box jumps, kneeling jumps, and broad jumps to something like Westside DE. Or you could do some CAT with high bar narrow(er) stance squats after your main work, or do it with your main work like Sam Byrd.

A lot of it will depend on your squat style and programming preference. I wouldn’t do Westside style DE unless your doing the whole ME, DE, RE thing. It’s just so demanding and taxing when done right that it doesn’t make a good just throw in there type of thing.


#19

[quote]Confinative wrote:
The problem with benches for singles is that I have no spotter or partner so if it’s stuck on my chest I might get hurt. Deadlifts and squats for singles is fine cause worst case scenario I fall, but bench involves a bar over my chest and abdomen so. That’s another reason I was looking at speed![/quote]

I have no spotter. You shouldn’t get hurt doing singles from 70-85%, especially if you can do them for more than 1 rep. Speed work is done at these percentages as well.