T Nation

Advice on Second Cycle Please


#1

Hi all,

My first cycle was Test E 500mg/week for 12 weeks, with standard nolva PCT (40/40/20/20). I was toying around with two possible ideas for my 2nd cycle and was after some advice.

Possible cycle 1: Test E 750mg/week + adex for 10 weeks

Possible cycle 2: Test E 400mg/week + Deca 350mg/week + adex for 10 weeks

My questions:

1) Does anyone have an opinion on which cycle would produce better gains?

2) Can I run the deca at this dose (possibly even as high as 450mg/week) without taking something for the prolactin?


#2

I think both cycle would produce similar level of gains. I would recommend anti-prolactin meds when using more than 200 mg of deca per week. Just keep in mind, from various studies, nandrolone is more harmful to your cadiovascular system than test, HPTA supression can be prolonged and severe etc etc. I don't rate nandrolone very highly as a bodybuilding drug. It has its place in the medical field, it's a very good drug at theraputic dosages, e.g 100mg/week. IMO Primobolan and Masteron are very nice drugs to stack with Test. The problem is that they are very hard to get.

Now, the question I want to ask is, Is there any reason for you to increase your total dosage by 50% ?
Although 500mg of test is considered "standard newbie cycle" today, that's still quite a lot of test. I would imagine you gained quite well on it. Why not just do it again?

Also, since you are from Australia, Did you use real human grade Schering Primoteston Depot preloads? or UGL grade 10ml vials. Some UGL uses vet grade test e @ 75mg/ml, and deca is faked with boldenone@50mg/ml. I used those stuff before, I still made gains on it though, 4 kg of LBM over a 12 week cycle with 150mg test + 100mg bold per week, and substantial fat loss at the same time. If you check medical journals, you will find that even 100mg of test or deca will produce gains in LBM without training in 6 weeks!

SO I would recommend you to stick with 500mg/week for at least 5 cycles, before you move up the dosage or stack. ALso, as you progress, you can adjust your training /nutrition to maximise muscle gain while on AAS.


#3

Mephistopheles,

First off thanks for the quick reply. As for your questions: I was under the impression (from reading this forum and others like it) that 500mg/week was really only good for a first cycle, and that following cycles would need some kind of increase in the dosage to see worthwhile gains. Actually I would much prefer to do 500mg/week again than 750mg/week, because it works out 50% cheaper :stuck_out_tongue:

As for my gear, its UGL stuff, 250mg/ml. However, im very sure its underdosed a bit (to explain: I used 2 brands of test E on my first cycle, brand A and brand B. I started with brand A, and when I moved on to brand B I felt that it was significantly weaker stuff...unfortunately all I can get now is brand B). My gut feeling is it would be closer to 200mg/ml, if im lucky. If im unlucky its 75mg/ml. But I doubt I would have gained 25lb's on my first cycle if I was pinning 150mg/week, so in theory the stuff is ok :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

Due to the synergy of Test and nandrolone, the second option IMO and IME would be better. Lower androgenic sides, lower estrogenic sides, more muscle/a nicer look.

What do you think? Let me put it this way.. you clearly know you need a dopamine agonist to control prolactin.. and you should know the range of doses deca is used in - so putting those together you should be able to answer that yourself.

Short answer - no. I would run one ANY TIME i use Nandrolone TBH.

Not at all.. you can gain well from a base of test with/without added compounds for a good number of cycles. There is no rush.
For example after all the cycles i have done, i can run 1g of test for 2.5g/wk of AAS total.. but i don't NEED to (and so rarely do) as i can also see improvements from a 1.25g/wk cycle.

Exactly. I would likely run 500mg test and 200mg Deca (with Caber) - you will not be disappointed IMO.

So let me get it straight - it is 250mg/ml or possibly 200mg/ml OR as low as 75mg/ml? What are you talking about?!
The fact your results dropped off in the second half of the cycle is not really indicative of a weaker product, this would have occurred if you continued with 'Brand A' (sigh*). If you really believe it is under-dosed, assume it is 200mg/ml and dose accordingly. That is what i would do, and have done in the past.

So stick with 500mg Test and if you want a bit more size and a nicer look to the body over what Test alone provides 9due to water and fat increasing as doses do), then add a little Deca. 350mg-450mg is NOT necessary. 200mg-300mg will be enough till you are 250lbs IME.

Brook


#5

It's hard to guess how underdosed brand B is. But most gains from test-e tend to come in the first 6 weeks. I suppose you used brand A for 5 weeks (10ml vial), followed by brand B by another 5 weeks. SO it is entirely possible for you to get 75mg/ml test-e. Let's hope not.

500mg is a dose that provide good cost/benifit/side effect ratio. It doesn't mean it's a "weak" dosage. DO you ramp up your paracetamol/ibuprofen/antibiotic/vitamin dosage every time you did a course? The truth is many recreational user assumed that they needed more drugs every time, so by the 4th cycle, they would be doing 750 test + 400 deca + 350 tren + 50mg/day dbol kick start + 50mg/day winstrol finisher. Hey that's great for the steroid dealers, but not so kind to your wallet and your organs.

To be honest, I prefer to use a low dose and work on my diet and training instead. As I grow older, some the side effects are no longer acceptable to me. I hate acne, bloat and high BP.

So, how about using 3ml of brand B per week for your second cycle. At best it will be 600mg of test, which will give you a little extra kick. At worst it is 225 mg/week, which is about 3x your natty test. You will still pack on a few pounds.


#6

I think mephs. post is better overall and the one I would recommend.


#7

Thanks for the replies guys. At this stage I think I'll go with mephistopheles' suggestion of 600mg/week test E (ie. 3ml/week). If I can get my hands on some caber (which is doubtful) then I might do 500mg/week test + 200mg/week deca.