T Nation

Advice on Next Cycle, 21 Y/O

Hi guys,

This is my first time posting to a thread. I’m 21 years old, 5’9 and 175lbs. I’m currently at the end of my first week pct from an 8 week ostarine cycle.

I’ve run probably a dozen of “prohormone” cycles since sophomore year of highschool—yeah I’m an idiot. I’ve no idea how I didn’t fuck up my endocrine system. I got bloods done throughout and except for one spike in my liver enzymes (during cycle) a few years ago, as well as an estrogen spike on a wet compound (maybe baladrol) a couple years ago.

Anyways I was a passenger in a car crash a couple years ago, fell off for a year or so and haven’t cycled until this ostarine cycle. I’m at about 10%bf, been cross training weights with jiu jitsu.

Now I’m toying with the idea of running my first t cycle late spring/early summer. I want to do a lean bulk, was thinking something like:

12 wks test e @500/600
4 wks turinabol @ 60
Ai and hcg throughout

Not sure what I should pin test at. Also don’t want a really wet cycle, which is why I was thinking tbol over dbol as a cycle kickstart.

What would be the best cycle to run for slow dry keepable gains without destroying my cardio?

Honest question. You’ve recognized your fallacies so why continue them?

His FFMI at 5’9, 175, 10% bf is nearly 24. It’s not like OP is “small”.

Highly doubt this first of all. Second of all he’s already on the best cycle of his life called … “youth”.

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Yeah I know:/ my natty t levels now are around 400 can coast and keep muscle, but I can’t really build new muscle, and my natty t levels aren’t low enough to actually go on trt

Why do people think the FFMI scale is accurate? Mines ~25 and I just barley look like I lift.

It comes down to experience on this forum. Every once in awhile we are surprised but here is how it typically plays out. Op says they’re at 10% but they really are 15%. Op says the they’re at 15% but they are really at 20%. For the icing on the cake, OP says they’re at 20% but they’re really fat as shit. This what I typically see.

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I get that, and totally agree. It’s the FFMI scale that I find issue with. It seems to be generous if you are heavier than you should, and brutal when you are lighter/leaner

One holds more muscle when heavier. The main flaw is body fat estimates with ffmi. One can also have a high ffmi, and poor insertions, and / or bad bone structure and look smaller than someone else that is better in those categories.

Additionally, most with high ffmi and body fat don’t look good, so I don’t really care all that much about it in that situation. Get a high ffmi and be below 15 percent body fat, and that will will be noteworthy.


I’d second that. Having an FFMI of 25 normally makes you look very good, if you

  1. Estimate/measure BF correctly. Because if you’re off by a few % that puts that FFMI very fast at 22-23.

  2. Aren’t fat. If you’re fat, nothing will make you look good besides a 1000 lbs deadlift, then you’ll look very good.

In my case, FFMI has always been a good measurement and I did agree with the assessment it gave me.

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This was my point about it. Unless you’re lean a “high” FFMI is useless.


I don’t think OP is far off probably. At 21 I know plenty guys walking around at 10% BF. Usually not at that weight, but OP cycled and has weight training under his belt.

I am of the opinion it is not a good idea to cycle at 21. I didn’t do it and it was the right decision. Cycling at 21 is plain stupid.

With that being said,

I think this is good. Test at 500 per week.

Only use the AI when needed and hCG throughout adds a bit of complexity with the AI but I think you should do what you can to keep your nuts working at that age.

Don’t do it though.

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Our goal should be the ronnie look. Ffmi at 40, and body fat around 4 - 5 percent. Unfortunately, it isn’t in the cards for me (or 99.999 percent of everyone else).


I know you were making humor but on that subject I don’t even want to be close to “huge” especially being short. I always like Van Dammes look in his prime.

For sure joking. There is a lot of negatives just being that size. Lots of guys get sleep apnea way before reaching that size. I don’t imagine big ramy going for a walk as the chaffing would be brutal. Then you get into the strain on organs with being that size and the drug use to be that size.

Personally, my goal is about 210, but lean and athletic. I figure I need to lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle to get there.

I’m with you. I need to do about the same even after this cut I’m on. I’m down 20lbs but still not near as vascular as I thought I would be. I need to lose prob another 10lbs and then gain at least 5 back in lean weight.

Oh and I already have sleep apnea so that’s not a concern!

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