T Nation

Advice On My Progress?

Hello all,

A couple of months ago I posted that I got recently test results with a LOW T of about 275 for a 46 year old person that was rather active, not overweight (though could lose some in certain areas), exercised daily but not hardcore but was feeling super tired. I have had low T since I Started to test for it about 5 years ago but it seemed to always hover around 320 to 340.

In any case we did all the standard tests, checked thyroid and even the pituitary gland which I checked a few years ago as well. In any case the thyroid came back just fine, I did have a small tumor in the pituitary gland but they said it was benign but doc wanted to check it again and we did 2 months ago and it was still benign but actually had gotten smaller.

In any case she (the doctor) wanted to start me on TRT. I asked if I could spend a couple of months trying to raise my TRT natural with a better lifestyle. She said it would not hurt to try but I was so low she didn’t think I could raise it significantly to not go for the treatment.

So for the next 2 months I did the following

  1. Tried to get 8 hours a night of sleep (this probably was my worst performance though)
  2. Started to do more weights in the gym and a little more frequent. I can’t lift heavy heavy weights as of yet from a recent back surgery but tried to challenge myself
  3. Intermittent fasting 16/8 - which I ended up really enjoying - I was not trying to lose weight but wanted the other health benefits from it plus it kept me from snacking on junk food in my fasting window and I was eating better during fasting (sure a treat here and there but not often)
  4. Started a supplement routine of D3, DHEA, Zinc, Magnesium, Cod Liver Oil, Ginger

So I did this for 2 months, sleep was the toughest for me to do but I kept up with pretty much everything else so at the end of the two months

My stomach as decreased a lot, so has the fat I had on my neck, seemed to really tighten up which was great and I can actually see the difference in the mirror, great thing is I have not lost any weight it just seems to have been used for muscle, tightening etc.

So I got my test again and my Testosterone has gone up almost 200 points in two months as I sit at 450 now. I know that is still low for my age but I have never seen a number over 400 since I started testing over 5 years ago (yearly checkup)

Now the doctor thinks perhaps I can raise it natural and wants me to keep on doing what I am doing for the next two months as well.

I am still quite tired a lot and doctor says well you are still quite low but she was surprised at the jump. You think I am on the right track guys? Think just keep on plugging away with what I am doing, has anyone ever heard of people that were really low getting back up to an acceptable level, the numbers have given me some hope that is possible

thanks

Do you know your free testosterone level?

I don’t have that on hand, but the doctor said it was in the normal range for the amount of total T that I presently have.

Your testosterone is not normal for your age. Its extremely low. Don’t listen to the crap of your doctor. A normal range for you you can accept as 900-1200.

So you can continue to do what you are doing. Some small percentage of people manage to get themselves in this optimal range posted by me above with natural means. This will be the case if what you have corrected now was causing your low t.

It is highly likely you will not succeed and you need to inject yourself testosterone. But cheer up, because then you need to continue doing what you are doing now! Testosterone is not a magic pill. You need to continue living the healthy lifestyle. And as much of you can achieve before you go into testosterone in terms of cleaning diet and loosing body fat, the less side effects from TRT you will have!

It is a huge difference if you enter TRT as a fat person hardly doing any exercise, eating pizza, drinking and smoking or you go as a relatively lean person who eats healthy food and lifts weights.

In my humble opinnion give yourself 3-5 more months to optimize T naturally and in fact your whole health, take tests and make decision then.

A lot of men think that they can increase T from the 300’s all the way to the 800’s and this is just not realistic. Your levels “were” 450 on the day of testing and may not be 450 today. If you were to test your levels everyday, you would see a fluctuation in levels and if you are spend half of the time with levels in the 300’s and other days in the 400’s, this is not good.

You are mostly seeing a fluctuation and it’s fooling you into thinking your levels actually increased, even healthy men see fluctuations. You even stated you had a test showing 400 in the 5 years of testing.

Your Total T while low is not the only important lab test, Free T should be your focus as well.

Your progress has not change from a hormonal standpoint.

The CDC harmonized referenced range for healthy non-obese American and European men aged 19-39 years is 264 to 916.

At 46 years old, at 450 you are right in the middle of the bell curve of 19-39 year old people.

In addition, in 2 months time you have:

“My stomach as decreased a lot, so has the fat I had on my neck, seemed to really tighten up which was great and I can actually see the difference in the mirror”

In just two months. That’s great!

What are your actual symptoms aside from being tired? Unless you are trying to hit some magical number, your results are in the middle of the bell curve for a younger group of people, and in just 2 months you are seeing noticeable improvements of your health. Why wouldn’t you just keep what you are doing since you are getting results vs. going on drugs for the rest of your life? Seems like good advise to me from your doctor given your results.

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Men 70 years ago had higher testosterone than the men of today, normal today will not look the same tomorrow. The ranges will continue to spiral down.

Perhaps, but also perhaps not.

70 years ago there weren’t wildly the same number of being tested. There weren’t TRT clinics in every city, billboards and internet ads suggesting folks get tested, etc. Correlation does not imply causation and all that.

One of the other commenters said:

“Your testosterone is not normal for your age. It’s extremely low. Don’t listen to the crap of your doctor. A normal range for you you can accept as 900-1200.”

That is simply, factually, incorrect. His testosterone at 450 for his age is good, and in the middle of the bell curve for a much younger age group based on a significantly sized harmonized reference study. It’s also in the range that (from everything I’ve read thus far) gets into the grey area as to whether or not TRT is worth it. A lot of people in the 400’s seem to come off of it saying the difference between 400 and 800 isn’t worth it.

Now if you just want to get into the 800-1,000 range, can pay for it, and are good with the pros/cons - I’d say all power to you. Just my .02 it seems like what you are doing is having some good effects, and your doctor appears to be giving you good advise.

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One of my points was his testosterone was 450, he has measured 320, 340, 400 and 450. The bigger picture is being ignored, like were his levels are the majority of the time which is an unknown because we do not test everyday.

I think it’s premature to say the OP has good T for a man his age without knowing to his SHBG or Free T levels, if his SHBG were 60, then his T is terrible.

Just because his Total T is normal for a guy his age doesn’t mean it’s healthy.

Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:

The locally weighted regression showed that total testosterone levels of 440 and 480 ng/dL were associated with increased Framingham CVD risk and an increased probability of increased hsCRP, respectively. Men with sexual dysfunction (poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido) had significantly greater CVD risk.

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actually I said I have never been in the 400’s after 5 years of testing, so this was the first time I ever saw a 400 score.

Don’t get me wrong I know my testosterone is low but I am personally seeing some changes in my body, mood, etc… you could be very correct and replacement therapy might be my future but I still like to give it a go a little longer,

thanks for your thoughts guys I really appreciate it. Gives me lots to think about:)

Don’t disagree looking at Free T or SHBG is a good thing to do. As well as any other symptoms, etc.

He’s losing weight, gaining muscle, sleeping better, cleaning up his diet - and his last Total T test has increased a noticeable amount. Maybe because of that, maybe not.

Even if you set aside the T increase, this is good progress being made which would imply continuing along the same path would continue to have results. Literally every data point mentioned aside from still being tired at times is an improvement (and everyone gets tired).

Now if you did all that, and didn’t lose fat, didn’t gain muscle, and didn’t have a T result with a noticeable jump up, etc (basically if every data point was negative despite all your efforts) - that’s a different scenario.

Fortunately, that doesn’t appear to be the trajectory at hand.

Just another update. still have not gone the Replacement route.
Been seeing changes and have continued to stick to my new lifestyle.

  1. Energy has been better than in the past. I still get tired but not like before, I used to be tired all day every day, now I get tired here and there throughout the day, sometimes take a quick 10 min or 15 min snooze to refresh
  2. Taking Vitamin D as that was low, tests today show it is very healthy and doctor wants me to cut back a bit on it, as to much Vitamin D is also a bad thing, so will be taking a vitamin D every other day.
  3. Taking Ginger, DHCA, Omega 3 Supplements
  4. Working out more and more as time goes, and seem to be getting stronger, slow going but better, my gut is almost gone completely now which is nice, slimmed back down to a 32 waist
  5. Still been doing intermediate fasting the 16/8 method, on a regular basis, I would say now I do not follow it super strict like when I started but trying to get 7 or 8 hours of no eating window, though i sometimes change the timing a bit.
  6. Also removed most of the snacks in the past, chips,chocolate, crackers, etc. I usually used to eat that stuff in the night, since intermediate fasting I just stop eating at a certain time at night so I do not even think about it. Now I am not mister No junk food at all kind of guy, I still treat myself to some sweets, etc every now and then it just is not a daily thing anymore.
  7. Sleep is still sometime I need to work on, probably my biggest hurdle trying to get a good schedule going.

So Today I had a testosterone test and I am still climbing up. I am up to 522 now, which is pretty cool. I know it is still low for many here and I understand that but I never saw the number 400 in five years on my last results and now I am above 500! I am going to continue on my route and see where it takes me.

Thanks all for this channel and your advice, so much appreciation to all

Just got another check today Feb 25 2020, been keeping up with mostly everything in my last post

I can say my energy levels are much better now compared to last year. I often had to take several naps during the day last year now I might take a 20 min nap in the afternoon every 3 days or so,

Today I got a reading of 612 so I am still climbing (my last reading was 522). Very happy to see that I have gone from 275 up to 612 a more natural method. I am all for trying replacement therapy but since things keep on climbing I decided to just keep it going as is. As long as things keep on going up I am cool with it.

Thanks all

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With no TRT? That’s impressive.

Very impressive progress…

Depresses me a little bit though…Because I do almost all the things that you do…IF, High Protein Diet, Heavy Weight Lifting…and my total T sits at 377 with a free of 7.5 at 47 years old…yet I am too chicken shit to get on TRT at the moment.

I too was chicken shit and put it off for 10 years. My only regret now, after starting, is that I didn’t do it 10 years ago. There’s nothing to be afraid of. It’s way easier than you think. No big deal at all.

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So many people say this

I had plans on doing TRT, but just wanted to see if lifestyle changes could improve it first. Doctor didn’t think it was possible but said not going to hurt to give it a go. I still want to be higher but have more hope with the natural method, at least it seems to be working for me. I know everyone is different, I am definitely not saying do what I did and everything will be great.

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My natural levels were 575 pre-TRT and TRT has made a gigantic change in my life. If you’re feeling great then that’s what counts but one can have decent T levels and still benefit dramatically from TRT (as long as they know what they are getting into). I’m more for optimizing my T though.