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Advice on First Cutting Cycle

Hey everyone, Im planning out my 1st cutting cycle. Looking to start it in April. Some info about me…
28 years old
Been lifting for 10 years
Have done 4 cycles
Have done Test E, Test Cyp, Tren, Deca, and Dbol

Ive been blessed to have some great tutelage from a former IFBB. I feel adequate enough to put together a respectable and safe bulk cycle, along with a proper and efficent PCT. Unfortunately, I lost my mentor last October, and we’ve never went over cutting cycles.

There are some of his disciples around the gym…and now that hes gone, they all think they are the GO TO source for info. They have their opinion of how a cutting cycle should go. But they are cocky, arrogant, and run WAY to many compounds in absurd dosages.

So before I get into what I think Ive found to be a good cutting cycle, Here are my stats
6’1, 230lbs, 16% body fat. Wanting to stay at 230lbs, and drop to about 6-8% body fat. Diet and cardio are ready go, keeping my lifting heavy, finishing with complexes. Will be doing fasted cardio, starting out 3x a wk only 20 mins and uping the intensity and frequency as needed.
The Cycle
400mg Primo wks 1-12
Anavar 50mg ED wks 1-8
Winny 50mg ED wks 8-12
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20

So that is the blue print. Any advice, suggestions, or questions are welcome!

Your goals are physically impossible to accomplish in 12 weeks.

Bonez, thanks for the reply, Your right my friend. Let me restate, My END goal, is to be 230lbs at 6-8% body fat. Im not expecting to gain all that lean body mass and lose all that fat in this cycle. Jus’ looking to cut up the fat, while atleast retaining muscle, if not adding some LBM.

[quote]Subject17 wrote:
Bonez, thanks for the reply, Your right my friend. Let me restate, My END goal, is to be 230lbs at 6-8% body fat. Im not expecting to gain all that lean body mass and lose all that fat in this cycle. Jus’ looking to cut up the fat, while atleast retaining muscle, if not adding some LBM.[/quote]

Now that you have come to your senses,

Use the Primo / Anavar cycle and plan for a 11-12% BF ( forget the winny )
If you are 230 plan on getting to 200~ish looking good, then re-eval …

Again, Diet is key ! ( Drop carbs after 2 PM to start off )

Good Luck

You don’t have to drop your carbs at 2pm as posted.

Why should he do this? What if he trains at 8pm?

Subject, what’s your current diet like?
And what sort of training do you plan to entail?

Actual: 230 = 198 lean lbs / 32 lbs fat
Goal: 230 = 218 lean lbs / 12 lbs fat
So you are wanting to drop twenty pounds of fat and gain twenty pounds of muscle in twelve weeks with 12 weeks or low-dose Primo and 12 weeks of orals… Not going to happen no matter what you use.

But let’s go ahead and entertain some things.

  1. Losing twenty pounds in twelve weeks - First I must say that you know your body better than anyone, but I see some things that would hold you back: 20min of cardio 3x a week. That’s great for an obese person or someone trying to gradually lose fat, but you are trying to lose a good amount, so being that your cardio is going to net you a theoretical lose of 1 pound every 6 weeks (theoretical as intensity, bodyfat levels, etc dictate more than a exercise calculator does) so I’m guessing your diet is the deciding factor in your fast weightloss? - but that’s not going to let you grow much muscle - are really at your size of 198 lean lbs and having done cycle and probably being above your natural physiological level it sure the heck ain’t happening. Increase your cardio substantualy but keep it lower-intensity like walking with a vest or something as you are also trying to gain 20lbs of muscle!

  2. Your cycle: A low-dose of Primo, which isn’t the greatest at retaining muscle mass anyway with no Test or anything that is good at retaining muscle or anything that has a anti-corticosteroid effects isn’t going to help you even retain muscle at your level, muscle less grow 20lbs of it. Plus your Orals aren’t going to help too much either and twelves weeks is a bit long. So basically I see some stuff that would help retain or cause a slight gain if you were trying to lose a little fat, but still not 20lbs.

Now the other stuff you said you’ve tried is going to be more condusive to your goals, but I don’t understand your current level combinded with your goal and your choice on how to get there? You should know a little better. That all being said, I think the best way to approach it would be to decide what you’re willing to do and then shape a cycle around that. How low are you willing/wanting to take your calories? How much exercise are you willing/wanting to do? If you had to slide the scale more towards fat loss or muscle gain: which one are you more willing to compromize on? Personally at 210lbs and 8% bodyfat I feel I look pretty darn good, and that’s with 3lbs less lean mass you have (195 lean, 15 fat), so maybe you should just focus on getting your bodyfat down and go from there? I hope none of this comes across crass, I’m just trying to get you to think and rationize a bit, focus your goal a bit more and hope for both, otherwise you’re sacrificing both goals. I bet if you lose 10 and gained 5 for example that you’d be pretty happy being below 10% bodyfat (having a noticable six-pack and real lean look) - just an example.

@Mini,
Thank you for the advice. So you guys think the dosing on the primo and anavar will suffice? If I drop the winny, maybe throw in clen 2wks on/off through out the cycle?

@Pittbull,
Ironic you say that, 8pm is my set lifting time. Not by choice, but its what I have to work with right now.
Current Diet is about 1.5g of protein per body pound (around 350g a day give or take) Carbs are only taken before lifting, while lifting, and my post gym shake. Other than that, Im all Fats and protein. Cals are 2800-3000 a day. Im doing mild cardio, with mild cuts in calories at the moment. Nothing to drastic, but its getting the sloppy fat off.
When I start the diet in april, I will drop to 2300 cals a day, with zero carbs and reload on sundays. Training will be heavy on the core lifts, (4-6 rep range) then lighten up a bit on the auxiliry lifts (8-10 reps) If I have the time I will be in the gym twice a day (say Back AM, Bi’s and rear delts PM) If I cant make it in twice a day, then the lay out will be Back, bis, rear delts, finish with a complex that will blast those muscle groups.

Cardio will be fasted (aminos of course) at 20mins 3x a week. Will up the frequency and intensity throughout the 12 weeks. Will cap it off at 45mins 5x a wk.

@Beat,
Some really good insight man. I respect that. 230lbs at 6-8% is my next goal. Im not expecting to drop that weight and add that LBM with this cycle. I apologize for not being clear on that. My goal with this cycle is to clean up as much fat as I can, and if I add some LBM in the process, even better. Using your words, I would slide the scale towards fat loss with this cycle. Also, with my size, and goals, sounds like you dont think primo/anavar is a good decision. Im not set in stone on that cycle, and I am open for suggestions.

You sound like you know what to do with carbohydrate timing for your workouts. When I start to diet I have complex before and after, and simple during. Then, as time goes on I drop my pre-workout carbs, then drop my peri-workout carbs, the drop my post-workout carbs.

I also have a protein shake before morning cardio as well.

I diet hard until I’m down to just meat and veg, even without any fat for the last couple weeks. This is a real killer.

I suggest you eat mostly complex carbs on your re-feed days. Limit your fat, to like 0, and drop your protein a bit, maybe in half.

You don’t need to lift twice a day. Cardio twice? Maybe. Depends how lean you want to get. Last year for my final 3 weeks I was up to 2 hours of walking on a treadmill a day, with one hour of training eod, and abs, and stretching in between.

Start your calories high and proceed to drop. Start the duration of your cardio low, and raise when needed.

Christian Thibideau’s Destroying Fat is a solid program to choose from and gain some advice.

Pittbull,
Sounds like we pretty much have the same recipe for cutting up. Ive only cut once… and got down to 6.3% bodyfat. Took overall about 20 weeks. When its time to cut calories, I start at the carbs. Similiar to what you said, I 1st cut the pre gym carbs, then my peri carbs, then when it comes time to cut carbs all together I end the post gym carbs. The final end is brutal as well. When you gotta cut the fats… egg white omelets with spinach and/or broccoli… gets redundant after awhile. And condiments? Ha. Mustard became my best friend real quick.

Fasted cardio is at the track (weather permitting). At my peak, in a 45 min session when Im running on all cylinders, I bust out 4 miles. 5 miles if you count 2 lap warm up and cool down, lol.

My reload days basically consist of fruits, skim milk, oatmeal, and sweet potatoes. When I get lean, Im reloading about every 5 days or so… and that first meal of carbs… I break out in a sweat above my upper lip, lol. And yeah, on reload days my fat intake is next to none. I actually had only 7grams for the whole day (although im sure there was some roll over fat grams in there somewhere)

I need someone to tell me if its possible for me to get to 6% bodyfat in 6wks? I have a bodybuilding coontest I want to do August 14th and Im currently at 12% bf and 195lbs