Advice on Different PCTs

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]Tonkaboy wrote:
Hi OP, I just thought I share with you my cycle information. I completed my first cycle and PCT a few weeks ago. I followed a lot of Brooks�??�?�¢??s advice. I consider my first cycle a success. Aside from being able to keep a few pounds of the new muscle I gained, I did not have any serious negative side effects. I just experienced minor acne flare-ups during PCT. I am now preparing for my next cycle. After reading Brooks advice to you , I am considering doing the HCG from week 1 instead of waiting for 2 weeks as well as using Toremifene instead of Tamoxifen during PCT. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks in this forum. Keep on reading. Good luck on your cycle and keep us posted.

Here’s the link to my log:

[/quote]

Thank you bro for your help.
Toremifine ! Damn ! I just read some studies and it appears stronger and safer than nolva, and more easier on IGF-1 levels.

22

Btw, any thoughts on DHEA during cycle ? (I was told that it can help)

23

Update.

I post my final first cycle. I have changed some things.

First of all, I added EQ because of its capacity to increase collagen synthesis, while the testosterone reduces it. Moreover, this compound will make me hungry, and it’s not a bad thing in order to bulking, and it’s a pretty nice mild anabolic.

I have read a lot of thing about Toremifene, and I will use it instead of Tamoxifen. Indeed, it’s easier on IGF-1 levels, more safer, and it seems to be more effective.

I will taper down the dosage of my AI during the PCT. It boosts testosterone levels and it seems to be a must during the PCT.

I will buy a lot of OTC supp for cholesterol, blood pressure, and liver, and some OTC herbal products like very high dosed Tribulus and Longfolia to help ( a little bit ) the stimulation of LH and FSH. I will include low dose of DHEA (2x25mg/day), because I was told by a famous trainer ( I don’t know if I cannot name him) that it can help during an AAS cycle.

So, it’s what I get :

CYCLE :

weeks 1-10 Test E (500mg/week) FRONTLOADING 750mg the first day
weeks 1-9 Equipoise (400mg/week) FRONTLOADING 600mg the first day
weeks 7-12 Methandrostelonone (30mg/day)

weeks 1-12 HCG (2x250iu/week)
weeks 1-12 Exemestane (12,5mg/day)

PCT

week 13 Exemestane (25mg/day)
week 13 Toremifene (120mg/day)
week 14 Exemestane (20mg/day)
week 14 Toremifene (90mg/day)
week 15 Exemestane (15mg/day)
week 15 Toremifene (60mg/day)
week 16 Exemestane (10mg/day)
week 16 Toremifene (30mg/day)

The last shots of Test E will be the monday of the 10th week. So there will be exactly 3 weeks (21 days) between last test shots and the beginning of the PCT.

I will start a log pretty soon.

Concerning my diet, I will eat a lot, because food is the most anabolic substance around here.

For the moment, I am at 300-400g of protein/day, and something like 400-600g of carbs, 60-100g fats.

On cycle, I will try to get something like 600-700g of proteins/day, and 900-1000g of carbs, 120g of fats. Of course, no junk food. Carbs will be eaten from Oatmeal, fruits and vegetables only (exept post-training malto/dext), proteins from hydrolized whey, hydrolized casein, tuna, beef isolate, milk, eggs and fats from olive oil, fish oil, flaxseed oil. I don’t count the healthy supps. Every 4 weeks, I will have a low carb weeks (220g/day) and I will increase healthy fats, proteins stay the same.

If I start to get too fat, I reduce my carbs and fats intake.

Concerning the training, High volume med-intensity works for me. I try to not go to total failure to not overtaxe my CNS, but I do something like 12 sets per bodyparts (exept for the back and the legs). I am a high carb guy, and this kind of workout is pretty good for me. The majority of my exercice will be compounds movements.
Every 4 weeks, during the low carbs week, I will divided the volume by 2, in order to rest and to gain more strenght.

Cardio : 3x a weeks, only HIT cardio during 7-10 min RIGHT after training.

That’s all, and I hope that my log will be interesting. Thank you for your help for my cycle, guys.

24

Good luck with everything.

I would suggest taking before after pics. Same time of day, same room, same lighting, same camera. These will help you see how much your body has changed, and will also give you something to post for us. Again, make sure the pictures are the exact same before and after. The only difference should be the amount of muscle your body has!

25

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Good luck with everything.

I would suggest taking before after pics. Same time of day, same room, same lighting, same camera. These will help you see how much your body has changed, and will also give you something to post for us. Again, make sure the pictures are the exact same before and after. The only difference should be the amount of muscle your body has![/quote]

It’s exactly what I will do. No cheating. Thank you man.

26

Wow. What a good read! You sure did your homework. lol, wayyy more than I did! lol 'not ashamed to admit it.

Was there a reason why you chose to forgoe letrozole as the AI?

Also, to Cortes, why would you say glutes are asking for trouble? I started with glute, and I find it very easy to pin. I personnally prefer to be able to have a better look on things and while I’m pretty limber, twisting around trying to inject with one hand… especially with the added nervousness that accompanies the first times, is probably not ideal? Just curious

thanks! I’m eager to see the results! I personnally just started a 4wks TestProp 400mg/wk + Stan 50mgED cycle.

Good luck with everything
Bonne chance ; )

27

[quote]Relentless wrote:
Wow. What a good read! You sure did your homework. lol, wayyy more than I did! lol 'not ashamed to admit it.

Was there a reason why you chose to forgoe letrozole as the AI?

Also, to Cortes, why would you say glutes are asking for trouble? I started with glute, and I find it very easy to pin. I personnally prefer to be able to have a better look on things and while I’m pretty limber, twisting around trying to inject with one hand… especially with the added nervousness that accompanies the first times, is probably not ideal? Just curious

thanks! I’m eager to see the results! I personnally just started a 4wks TestProp 400mg/wk + Stan 50mgED cycle.

Good luck with everything
Bonne chance ; )[/quote]

Aromasin is the safest AI (for the body, for IGF-1 levels, for lipid profils…), and it is useable during the PCT (Arimidex and letrozole aren’t). By the way, letrozole is too powerful for me, I don’t want to have zero estrogen while bulking. These are my reasons, with the first being the most important one.

Je te remercie vivement mon pote francophone, bonne chance à toi aussi :slight_smile:

PS : Nice body bro. And I like your occupation ; )

28

[quote]Rayzen02 wrote:
Relentless wrote:
Wow. What a good read! You sure did your homework. lol, wayyy more than I did! lol 'not ashamed to admit it.

Was there a reason why you chose to forgoe letrozole as the AI?

Also, to Cortes, why would you say glutes are asking for trouble? I started with glute, and I find it very easy to pin. I personnally prefer to be able to have a better look on things and while I’m pretty limber, twisting around trying to inject with one hand… especially with the added nervousness that accompanies the first times, is probably not ideal? Just curious

thanks! I’m eager to see the results! I personnally just started a 4wks TestProp 400mg/wk + Stan 50mgED cycle.

Good luck with everything
Bonne chance ; )

Aromasin is the safest AI (for the body, for IGF-1 levels, for lipid profils…), and it is useable during the PCT (Arimidex and letrozole aren’t). By the way, letrozole is too powerful for me, I don’t want to have zero estrogen while bulking. These are my reasons, with the first being the most important one.

Je te remercie vivement mon pote francophone, bonne chance � toi aussi :slight_smile:

PS : Nice body bro. And I like your occupation ; )

[/quote]

Anastrazole and letrozole can absolutely be used for PCT.

Letrozole doesn’t reduce Estrogen to zero - and if used with a little care it is fine to use ‘when bulking’ etc…

I would have to look up the ‘safest’ claim, but i am sure if i did i may find something to contradict that too… unless you have something to hand to back it up?

29

[quote] Brook wrote:
Rayzen02 wrote:
Relentless wrote:
Wow. What a good read! You sure did your homework. lol, wayyy more than I did! lol 'not ashamed to admit it.

Was there a reason why you chose to forgoe letrozole as the AI?

Also, to Cortes, why would you say glutes are asking for trouble? I started with glute, and I find it very easy to pin. I personnally prefer to be able to have a better look on things and while I’m pretty limber, twisting around trying to inject with one hand… especially with the added nervousness that accompanies the first times, is probably not ideal? Just curious

thanks! I’m eager to see the results! I personnally just started a 4wks TestProp 400mg/wk + Stan 50mgED cycle.

Good luck with everything
Bonne chance ; )

Aromasin is the safest AI (for the body, for IGF-1 levels, for lipid profils…), and it is useable during the PCT (Arimidex and letrozole aren’t). By the way, letrozole is too powerful for me, I don’t want to have zero estrogen while bulking. These are my reasons, with the first being the most important one.

Je te remercie vivement mon pote francophone, bonne chance Ã???Ã?? toi aussi :slight_smile:

PS : Nice body bro. And I like your occupation ; )

Anastrazole and letrozole can absolutely be used for PCT.

Letrozole doesn’t reduce Estrogen to zero - and if used with a little care it is fine to use ‘when bulking’ etc…

I would have to look up the ‘safest’ claim, but i am sure if i did i may find something to contradict that too… unless you have something to hand to back it up?[/quote]

I have something on hand. If you want the link, I can give you in PM.

: )

30

mm… might be interested too!! lol

I’m front loading letro at 0.5mg EOD for a week, then 0.25EOD as it is…

but I’ve reaally busted up my wrist in the gym yesterday… so I’m putting everything on hold while I give it a couple of days to see if it’ll be ok for some intense workouts… then I’ll start the cycle. I’m just glad this happened after 1 shot instead of middle cycle, which would’ve been worse

this really blows
in the meantime I’ll be reading up some more! :slight_smile:

31

[quote]Relentless wrote:
mm… might be interested too!! lol

I’m front loading letro at 0.5mg EOD for a week, then 0.25EOD as it is…

but I’ve reaally busted up my wrist in the gym yesterday… so I’m putting everything on hold while I give it a couple of days to see if it’ll be ok for some intense workouts… then I’ll start the cycle. I’m just glad this happened after 1 shot instead of middle cycle, which would’ve been worse

this really blows
in the meantime I’ll be reading up some more! :)[/quote]

PM sent. Moreover, Aromasin don’t need to be taper off during PCT due to the fact that it does little if no more estrogen rebound.
And why aromasin is better during the PCT ? Tamoxifen reduces blood plasma levels of adex and letro.

PS : I am sorry to hear that bro. I hope everything will be ok. Good luck.

32

I wasn’t saying that Aromasin is less compatible with SERM use - i was saying that contrary to your post, Letro and Adex are fine to be used through PCT and anytime.
Not to mention that it is pointless/useless to use one of the other AI’s and a SERM of course…

I also happen to know that estrogen rebound is not quite the reality many think (as in what happens in real life frequently differs to what one may have learn purely from text books) - simply, even though aromatase will increase, there is only so much Test TO act on once a cycle is over -= negating the potential ‘rebound’ that could theoretically occur.

Post the link publically :wink:

33

Brook - how would you advise letro be dosed for PCT. I have a supply and use at too high a dose during a cycle - what dose do you feel is applicable in PCT. In your mind is it as effective as Clomid or Nolva?

What are your thoughts on its use as a test booster off cycle in individuals with normal levels of E? Do you think that it will still increase T in this instance?
Thanks

34

Thanks for the info Rayzen!

Brook, I’d post the link, but would like Rayzen’s approval. Don’t want to be anal about this, my I think it would be proper NETiquette.

The wrist is going better, but I still feel a bit tight when I type and still have intermittent pain in it… so I’m not sure it’s wise to start my cycle when I’m not 100%… I’d hate having it become worse 3weeks into the cycle (short 4 wk cycle thought)

didn’t want to hijack, just thought I’d contribute to the conversation.

35

The link wasn’t for my benefit - which is why i asked for it to be posted.

I am aware of the interactions of AI and SERM and how Exemestane factors into that. I am also aware however of the actions of all AI’s on endogenous E and T levels when used in low doses off or post cycle.

It is not important - don’t sweat it :wink:

36

If you really want to the links, I can give them to you in PM.

Aromasin seems safer than others AI, and there is no interaction between exemestane and the SERM. It’s why I choose it, only for this reason. But I know that letro is more powerful. I cannot give any opinion on anastrozole, I haven’t read any studies/posts/opinions on its benefits/dangers.

Once again, my ideas came from what I’ve read on scientific studies/steroid forums/ knowledgeable user’s opinion… but I have zero pratical uses, so the only things I can say are pure theory or some “I’ve read that”. Brook seems to be a very experencied aas user, so it would be very stupid for me to say he isn’t right. It was just a misunderstood I think.

:wink:

37

It was a misunderstanding you are right.

I believe i mentioned that as soon as it was clear you meant it’s interaction with SERM’s specifically and not in the other AI’s abilities to raise T levels.

38

[quote] Brook wrote:
It was a misunderstanding you are right.

I believe i mentioned that as soon as it was clear you meant it’s interaction with SERM’s specifically and not in the other AI’s abilities to raise T levels.[/quote]

Yes, I just meant the interaction between the SERM and the AI :slight_smile:

No problem Brook

:wink:

39

Btw, what dose of exemestane do you suggest during my PCT…

PCT : week 1 toremifene (120mg/day)
2 toremifene (90mg/day)
3 toremifene (60mg/day)
4 toremifene (30mg/day)

AND : weeks 1-4 exemestane (25mg/day)

                  OR

       week 1 exem (25mg/day)
            2 exem (18,75mg/day)
            3 exem (12,5mg/day)
            4 exem (6,25mg/day)

                    OR

       week 1 exem (6,25mg/day)
            2 exem (12,5/day)
            3 exem (18,75mg/day)
            4 exem (25mg/day)

                   OR

       weeks 1-4 exemestane (12,5mg/day)

So, in clear : High dose, reversed taper, taper down, or low dose ?

Thank you very much :slight_smile:

PS : Someone on T-Nation tried the reverse taper of exem with a taper down dosage of toremifene and he was wonderfully pleased with the results.

40

[quote]Relentless wrote:

Also, to Cortes, why would you say glutes are asking for trouble?
[/quote]

Glutes are about the least “asking for trouble” site there is. The only issues is getting back there, which is really not the big deal it seems to be once you’ve done it twice.