Advice on Chiropractic School?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Injuries and Rehab
1

Im a long long time reader , like back when T-mag had no pictures. Over the years the change in format has put me off. * but dont mistake me for newb status i just dont even remember my level 5 former name>>>> i still do know the best advice comes from this forum when you need it.

About me long time Trainer and strength coach for many years wanting to become a Top Athletic chiropractor, Yes i know ART etc yeah ive been getting that since 2000. I would like to know if schools matter? im just about to transfer next fall,

my choices are Western States in Portland? which offers a masters in exercise science? i wonder if that is accredited and opens up doors? But ive lived in portland for 3 years and i hate it here in the rain!

next choice is
Palmer in san jose??? expensive to live while in school, no extra degrees? but i want to practice in the bay area so i dont know if thats beneficial?

LIfewest? seems to philosophy based for me.

LACC, My hometown of LA, not sure what to think of this school???

ANY Advice? any body with experience???

My DReam is to work with top athletes around the world.

I currently dont have a degree thats why i thought western states new exercise science degree might open up doors? I was working as a trainer for so long that i took my classes very slowly.

I really appreciate the feedback !

I already feel like chiropractic will just be my credential that my core knowledge and skills and already treatment of injuries is within my experience , ive had level III art instructors say that i helped them heal my injuries and teach them things.

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Thank you for the response and i couldn’t agree more! Actually ive felt that the core of my abilities I already posses , I have been working with my own tissue work and injuries for years, and with some of the best ART drs out there since the inception. I really feel that chiropractic would just really give me a better understanding of adjustment, * which i will not use much I want to focus mostly on TISSUE work and structural balance. I love doing tissue work.

I do want to gear towards private athletes as u states above.

My main questions was :

  • i know that the degrees dont matter ive been training as a strength coach since 97 and believe me Degrees dont do much!

but, Do you think the exercise science masters degree that western states offers would open more doors? to be able to do the all in one?

or does it still all depend on me???

otherwise i would have my DC and no degree behind me i wonder to people questions your * abilities even if you are an amazing specialist???

I cant seem to get this answer from anyone

I plan on getting ART certified before i graduate as well and also some acupuncture certification which i have used in my rehabs a combo of myofascial , ART, and acupunture and deep tissue!

4

Form,

If you are in the USA, look another direction. You’ll have greater than $120,000 in debt with a mean wage of about $30,000 per year. Yes that’s what I said and don’t believe what the schools tell you or those DC’s from the “Mercedes '80’s.” Reimbursement is dropping, DC’s practice independently, have to pay a lease/rent, and are the highest defaulting “healthcare” practicioner in the US. They are dropping like flies. PT’s manipulate, DO’s manipulate, acupuncture is a fad when tested in rigorous randomized placebo controlled trials and massage therapists can rub people (which is all MFR is anyway).

If you are a DC without a degree that screams ‘red flag.’ A doctor without a degree? Are you kidding me? For your own self respect (and those real doctors around you) get a degree.

As far as the adjustment, read some research. …

No specificity with the techniques, no lasting change in joint position, popping doesn’t matter, location doesn’t matter and the “wrong” technique is just as effective. As far as neck pain goes, no high level evidence to support manipulation over lower grade/velocity mobilization. Research and pain science suggests that placebo and expectation may have as strong an impact as the technique.

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Here is my take on Chiropractic schools and choosing them.
First, I went to Palmer in San Jose and graduated in June 2010. I went there because it was a 10 minute commute from my house. I opened a practice in Nov. 2010 once I had my licensing complete (yes, it takes 4-5 months to complete the paperwork). My office is in Los Gatos, Ca.
Chiropractic school (any school for that matter) really depends on how much effort you put into it. I’m very happy that I am a DC and enjoy my work. You can expect to drop about $150K+ by the time you finished everything.

Palmer is a good school with a heavy focus on science. Most of the professors are good but there are a few that have no business teaching anything - ever! If you want to work with athletes, the sports council is the best. They do not offer any masters/post doc work at all. Except for sports they do not encourage or offer other specialties (i.e. neurology or nutrition etc).
Living in San Jose is expensive. It is a great place to live and work and there are lots of opportunities to build a career here no matter what you emphasis is. If sports chiro is your focus SF, Oakland and SJ all have pro or semi pro teams of all kinds however just about everyone who goes into school wants to work with pro athletes = so good luck there.

Life west - I took my board reviews there through Irene Gold. There is a different vibe at LW. Although they do teach what you need for boards they are a lot more touchy feely, earthy crunchy and holistic centric. They have very active clubs (much more than palmer) and there is a lot more variety of techniques (i.e. Applied Kinesiology, NET, neurology).
The school is located in Hayward and is surrounded by light industrial factories and not much else. There is a starbucks a few miles away but that’s it. They do have a pool table at the school though.

About you question concerning advanced degrees. The problem with them is that they are not recognized by anyone outside of chiropractic circles. That makes them virtually worthless in terms of trying to get a job. Considering how much they cost, there is not much return on investment. The money would be better spend getting an practice up and running, learning how to run a business and making a name for yourself.

There you are. Hope that helps.

7

I have one other thing to add regarding bachelors degrees. I was working on a Kinesiology degree at San Jose State before starting at Palmer. I didn’t complete it and probably won’t because it will not add to my existing knowledge base because they will teach the same stuff I learned as a DC student. And seriously, I have to take Phys Ed. to get a B.Sc?

And once again, there is not return on investment. Having a degree doesn’t automatically increase my reimbursements and my patients have NEVER asked what my degree is in. They don’t care. They only care that I get them better.

If you can get the prerequisites out of the way (organic chem, physics and bio-chem) then get to the job of becoming an excellent Chiropractor.

I also agree with BBB, If you have your own practice you have expert level knowledge on everything related to musculoskeletal conditions otherwise you not giving your patients the best care possible.

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I’ve met very smart docs that went to “bad” med schools, and I had a lot of classmates in med school that I would not let work on me, and it was one of the “good” schools. In the end, if you study hard then you’ll be fine, the caliber of school makes less of a difference than your drive to learn. Of course you can fail out easier at a “good” school… This is just my opinion though.

Just a thought, but have you considered physical therapy, or MD to go PM&R or DO. There are a lot of options that are paying quite well. That is assuming the previous statements about ROI are true.

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I’ve met very smart docs that went to “bad” med schools, and I had a lot of classmates in med school that I would not let work on me, and it was one of the “good” schools. In the end, if you study hard then you’ll be fine, the caliber of school makes less of a difference than your drive to learn. Of course you can fail out easier at a “good” school… This is just my opinion though.

Just a thought, but have you considered physical therapy, or MD to go PM&R or DO. There are a lot of options that are paying quite well. That is assuming the previous statements about ROI are true.

10

BBB,

I would appreciate if you would provide a citation for your claim about manipulation and muscle strength. I have seen short term effects on quadriceps strength, TVA contraction and lower trapezius function. While they demonstrated statistical significance, I would not call these results clinically relevant

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BBB,

Have you tried implementing clinical kinesiology (beardall) into your AK?

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BBB,

If I used only interventions that were “proven” I (we) would never see anyone. We ‘prove’ nothing in research, only support or refute. In the end the patient is at the center. Combined with this is evidence (starting with high level to low level) and clinical experience.

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Man you guys are along of the lines of where I want to be. I want to work with athletes in a rehabilitation environment but I’m not sure which way to go towards as far as degrees are concerned. While I did take away the main message “It’s all about you and not the school” like BBB pointed out, as of right now, school is the only way I feel I can get enlightened and sort of focus on which way to go.

Right now I’m a semester away from graduating with my B.S. degree in Exercise Science, and was looking at the masters program in Exercise Science and Rehabilitation, like formoutofchaos mentioned he’s looking to do. I’m just confused as to what jobs I’d be available for with my masters in Exercise Science & Rehab concentration, let alone my bachelors in just Exercise Science alone. And as usual, the school’s head of Exercise Science department is pretty clueless in this area as well.

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That’s awesome advice BBB, it never even crossed my mind to look at getting insured. I figured picking up extra qualifications down the road here and there would be a definite. And I never thought about asking to shadow an expert in the field. My college offers “field experience” courses which are designed (for exercise science majors at least) to give you the feel of working in a lab and testing the physiological effects exercise has on the body. Not at all anything to do with rehab as far as I know, I’ll be taking this course in the Spring semester coming up.

This past semester the closest thing I took to a course on rehabilitation was based on The Alexander Technique, but I honestly just wasn’t that interested in it as the course went on. I’ll definitely have to keep my eye out for options in the future. Thanks for the advice.