Advice on Bulking

Diet and Nutrition
1

26 year old guy. 180 pounds, according to the scale 19% BF. I don’t want to lose any fat in fear of becoming a skinny fat guy. I’d like to bulk up without gaining tons of fat though. I’m thinking that would also slim me down. I want to look like I lift, ya know?

I just read Shugart’s post, Quality Mass Diet, so I think thats the direction I need to focus on? My diet needs a lot of work, and I was hoping you all could help me out with it.

6am Breakfast:
2 cups of egg beater for omelet. 1.5 cups of cooked spinach with turkey sausage and mozz. cheese. Pieces of celery 2 Flameouts
8:30am 1st snack:
I drink a Metabolic Drive Complete shake with Superfood
10am 2nd snack I drink a regular Metabolic Drive protein shake. 3scoops
Noon Lunch:
2 large chicken breasts. Handful of baby carrots. Handful of broc. and handful of salad mix. Chopped celery and cucumbers 1 tablespoon of xtra olive oil and apple cider vinegar. 2 Flameouts
2:30pm 3nd snack:
Metabolic Drive complete with Superfood
4:00pm 4th snack:
Metabolic Drive protein shake. 3 scoops
6pm workout
7:30-8pm Dinner
Usually same as lunch but sometimes I’ll use xtra lean hamburger instead of chicken

I know I need to add a lot more fat and carbs. Probably should drink a pre and post workout shake. And add more nuts, which I need to look for at wal-mart. Add more fruit maybe. I just started drinking the new Surge, and I think thats why I’ve been able to add 50 pounds to my bench max. I was drinking Surge Recovery, so now I’m not sure to keep drinking it after I work out or just forget about it. I also take creatine.

Any help I can get from you guys would be much appreciated. I need the help, and I’ll seriously do anything. I don’t mind eating the samething all the time, this way is cheaper. I work only 5 minutes away from my house, so I eat lunch at home. When its warmer, I plan on riding my bicycle back and forth.

Thanks so much for any advice!

2

Hot damn, that’s a lot of money on supplements, hopefully not all wasted.

Anyway.

More solid food, carbs and fats - as you mentioned.

Use the shakes as snacks, not main meals. Don’t be afraid of carbs, but use lower GI ones during the day.

My last bulk lasted 18 months, I gained 30 odd pounds and I didn’t gain much fat (I still fit in the same pants I did when I started, but now wear an XL shirt), and I started with a similar BF% to you.

Cycling is a great way to keep the fat gain down - I cycle 18 miles a day, year round to work and back so a bit of cold is no excuse.

My daily diet looked something like this:

6 whole eggs
1kg beef
3-400g chicken
500g beans
500g wholewheat pasta
400g fish in bread crumbs
400g Cottage cheese.
Vegetables

I’d also throw in a shake here and there when I had one, and 50g carbs PWO.

3

So what would you suggest I change? I’m not sure what else I can do to get the calories in. I didn’t know that was a lot of supplements to be using…

4

That’s too many shakes for my liking. I prefer solid, whole food over drinking nutrition.

Use the search function to find more information. This topic has been BEATEN TO DEATH a thousand times over

5

What particular posts do you recommend I search for? I honestly thought I was on the right track, but now, not so much.

6

[quote]lovemachine46147 wrote:
What particular posts do you recommend I search for? I honestly thought I was on the right track, but now, not so much.[/quote]

If it were me I’d start by typing in the word ‘Bulk’ in the search function and go from there. I’m guessing there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of people who asked the same general question(s) you are asking.

Start reading.

There are also numerous threads on how to get more calories. Search for those threads too… Pretend the search function is like Google – go nuts. Good luck

7

Try this:

Breakfast:
6 eggs, 4 slices whoegrain toast, 1.5 cups of cooked spinach with turkey sausage and mozz. cheese. Pieces of celery 2 Flameouts, pint of milk

1st snack:
50-60g MD Complete shake with Superfood made with milk

2nd snack
2 Handfuls of mixed nuts, 2-3 spoonfuls peanut butter, glass of milk.

Noon Lunch:
400-500g chicken breasts. + rice & Flameouts.

3nd snack:
400-500g chicken breasts + potatoes

4th snack:
Metabolic Drive protein shake 1 scoop with milk

6pm workout

Dinner
1lb lean beef mince with kidney beans and wholewheat pasta.

That’s what I’d do. Obviously this may be too much food, but as far as food selection goes I’d give this a shot instead, just adjust quantities to where you are gaining mass weekly, but not too much.

8

You should be adding a lot more carbs, not a lot more fats. Potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, oats, WW pasta, brown/long grain rice, quinoa, will keep glycogen full and you’ll burn fat while maintaining muscle mass. Don’t expect the scale to change much and you may even gain a bit of weight so use the mirror.

Carb cycling is definitely the way to go…read the article from last week off the main page. I’d recommend a high carb day for every day you lift with moderate/low days in there for off days. You probably don’t need to add any cardio on top of your biking. Way to be green btw!

9

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
adjust quantities to where you are gaining mass weekly, but not too much.[/quote]

Food selections look pretty good.

The biggest error you are likely to make is to make this more complicated than it is. Eat enough so that you are gaining about a pound or two per week.

If you have trouble eating enough food, the simplest solutions are:

Whole milk
Nuts
Assorted oils.

10

thanks for all the info!

11

What’s your routine look like?

12

The guy asked for advice and everyone gave him bad advice!

Someone with 19% bodyfat has no business bulking up unless he wants to just be a bigger, fatter version of his current self.

You have fear of being a skinny fat guy. If you lose fat and get down to 10 to 12%, how will you wind up being any sort of fat guy, skinny-fat or just plain old fat?!

If you’re a fan of Shugart’s writings, you should know that he advises that no one bulk up until they are very lean. Otherwise, as said above, with a caloric surplus, you’ll get even fatter.

13

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The guy asked for advice and everyone gave him bad advice!

Someone with 19% bodyfat has no business bulking up unless he wants to just be a bigger, fatter version of his current self.

You have fear of being a skinny fat guy. If you lose fat and get down to 10 to 12%, how will you wind up being any sort of fat guy, skinny-fat or just plain old fat?!

If you’re a fan of Shugart’s writings, you should know that he advises that no one bulk up until they are very lean. Otherwise, as said above, with a caloric surplus, you’ll get even fatter.

[/quote]

I was 167 lbs at 18% BF last year. No way should I have been cutting, and I didn’t.

My pics are on T-Cell.

I like his idea of going for lean mass gains, which will effectively lower his BF%.

14

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The guy asked for advice and everyone gave him bad advice!

Someone with 19% bodyfat has no business bulking up unless he wants to just be a bigger, fatter version of his current self.

You have fear of being a skinny fat guy. If you lose fat and get down to 10 to 12%, how will you wind up being any sort of fat guy, skinny-fat or just plain old fat?!

If you’re a fan of Shugart’s writings, you should know that he advises that no one bulk up until they are very lean. Otherwise, as said above, with a caloric surplus, you’ll get even fatter.

[/quote]

Who gave bad advice? he wants to know how to gain muscle and has already said that he is not concerned too much with losing fat. Not everyone is afraid of making progress.

Do you honestly think that there is some bodyfat cut-off point where you aren’t capable of gaining muscle, just fat?

I don’t understand the hero-worship I see on this site. Some of you will accept anything you read as absolute truth with no regard to its applicability to real life.

With respect to Chris Shugart, the dude is not big. Not even close. So why the unrelenting faith in everything he says?

15

[quote]Itchy wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
The guy asked for advice and everyone gave him bad advice!

Someone with 19% bodyfat has no business bulking up unless he wants to just be a bigger, fatter version of his current self.

You have fear of being a skinny fat guy. If you lose fat and get down to 10 to 12%, how will you wind up being any sort of fat guy, skinny-fat or just plain old fat?!

If you’re a fan of Shugart’s writings, you should know that he advises that no one bulk up until they are very lean. Otherwise, as said above, with a caloric surplus, you’ll get even fatter.

Who gave bad advice? he wants to know how to gain muscle and has already said that he is not concerned too much with losing fat. Not everyone is afraid of making progress.

Do you honestly think that there is some bodyfat cut-off point where you aren’t capable of gaining muscle, just fat?

I don’t understand the hero-worship I see on this site. Some of you will accept anything you read as absolute truth with no regard to its applicability to real life.

With respect to Chris Shugart, the dude is not big. Not even close. So why the unrelenting faith in everything he says?

[/quote]

Agreed.

I went up and down in weight in a pointless cycle, without making much progress because of certain things I had read. Once I actually said fuck it no more, I don’t care about the fat for now, I finnaly made some decent progress.

Have you ever tried it for yourself, or are you just speaking based on what you’ve read?

Experience > articles.

16

I DON’T have unrelenting faith in everything he says and have stated my criticism of some of his work openly on this forum!

BUT - he is right in his information provided on this topic.

I didn’t tell the guy to not gain muscle mass. With that amount of bodyfat, one could gain muscle while reducing one’s bodyfat simultaneously.

I don’t have anything against gains; I’ve made quite some gains in the past 12 years; I’ve also made some mistakes in that time too, one of them being the bulk-up-while-I’m-over-fat strategy.

Sure, you can get bigger - and gain muscle - while being fat. If that’s what the guy wants, then I take back my comments and perhaps inflammatory post. Not everyone wants to be lean; I understand this. But if one continues down that path of carrying 20 to 30 lbs of lard on them for decades, it will make eventual leaning out one HUGE pain in the ass! The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to lose fat. Refer to CT’s writings on this problem.

And most guys are not - what Dan Duchaine and Greg Zulack used to call - “champs”! That is, they are not Gary Strydom, Lee Priest, Ian Harrison, or any other monster that can successfully gain a shitload of muscle AND fat and successfully lean out after. Actually, champs don’t even get really fat; it’s actually hard for them. If you have “anabolic” genetics, go for it. If you’re a normal dude (which most of you are, considering you’re on this site), good luck!

17

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I DON’T have unrelenting faith in everything he says and have stated my criticism of some of his work openly on this forum!

BUT - he is right in his information provided on this topic.

I didn’t tell the guy to not gain muscle mass. With that amount of bodyfat, one could gain muscle while reducing one’s bodyfat simultaneously.

I don’t have anything against gains; I’ve made quite some gains in the past 12 years; I’ve also made some mistakes in that time too, one of them being the bulk-up-while-I’m-over-fat strategy.

Sure, you can get bigger - and gain muscle - while being fat. If that’s what the guy wants, then I take back my comments and perhaps inflammatory post. Not everyone wants to be lean; I understand this. But if one continues down that path of carrying 20 to 30 lbs of lard on them for decades, it will make eventual leaning out one HUGE pain in the ass! The longer you stay fat, the harder it is to lose fat. Refer to CT’s writings on this problem.
[/quote]

No one is telling the dude he should turn into a fat-ass. And 19% is not what I would call “overfat”. The OP wanted advice on how to add calories to his diet, and that’s what we gave him.

I understand that some people are not interested in mass gains nearly so much as they are interested in keeping fat gains at bay. But OP isn’t one of these people. He actually wants to build muscle, and the fact is–no one builds an impressive amount of size unless gaining size is a bigger priority for them than staying lean.

[quote]

And most guys are not - what Dan Duchaine and Greg Zulack used to call - “champs”! That is, they are not Gary Strydom, Lee Priest, Ian Harrison, or any other monster that can successfully gain a shitload of muscle AND fat and successfully lean out after. Actually, champs don’t even get really fat; it’s actually hard for them. If you have “anabolic” genetics, go for it. If you’re a normal dude (which most of you are, considering you’re on this site), good luck![/quote]

Most guys never even attempt to drastically change their bodies. Even fewer put their heart into it. So how do you know what “most guys” are capable of?

18

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I didn’t tell the guy to not gain muscle mass. With that amount of bodyfat, one could gain muscle while reducing one’s bodyfat simultaneously.
[/quote]

Yeah, while you can do that - I wouldn’t make it a goal. I don’t want to turn this into a big debate, but there is nothing wrong with bulking up (read: trying to add muscle) at his level.

You can go either way with it, it’s a personal choice, and I think if you intelligently put in the effort (ala G-flux) and turn-over a lot of calories, you can bulk at a higher bodyfat than most believe while still making good progress.

Even though I was putting down a lot of food, considering that I cycle 20 miles a day and spend 5-8 hours a week in the gym, I was able to expend a lot of the calories which in turn gave me favourable results.

19

Hey, im just over your stats, tiny bit heavier, you should bulk buddy, we have no muscle underneath our frames haha. seriously.

Get your lifts up (working on it), eat healthy (yup), gain weight, 0.5-1lbs a week and you’ll be fine. Do it for a year and then if ya think you have a little too much love to give :wink: then cut a little (using Berardi’s article he did for dave tate), then do it all over again.

YOU WILL REGRET CUTTING. Clean eating, even carb cycling if your willing to put in the time and effort, will lean you out and make you look twice as good in a year then you would have taking 2 steps back, leaning out and starting again.

Hope that makes sense.

Good luck :slight_smile:

20

[quote]RSGZ wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
I didn’t tell the guy to not gain muscle mass. With that amount of bodyfat, one could gain muscle while reducing one’s bodyfat simultaneously.

Yeah, while you can do that - I wouldn’t make it a goal. I don’t want to turn this into a big debate, but there is nothing wrong with bulking up (read: trying to add muscle) at his level.

You can go either way with it, it’s a personal choice, and I think if you intelligently put in the effort (ala G-flux) and turn-over a lot of calories, you can bulk at a higher bodyfat than most believe while still making good progress.

Even though I was putting down a lot of food, considering that I cycle 20 miles a day and spend 5-8 hours a week in the gym, I was able to expend a lot of the calories which in turn gave me favourable results.[/quote]

Exactly. I suspect that alot of people who have never eaten enough to gain do not realize how much more work you can do in the gym when you simply have enough food.