T Nation

Advice, Low BBB 5x10 Weight


#1

I am thinking of running 531 BBB for a few cycles as a change to my current programme
Current lifts from my last programme

Squat 4x8 115kg 5x5 130kg 3x3 145Kg
Deadlift 4x8 140kg 5x5 165kg 3x3 180kg 1x1 200kg (easily more there, done for fun instead of 3x3 on previous cycle)
Bench 4x8 65kg 5x5 70kg 3x3 75kg
OHP 3x10 42.5kg 4x8 45kg 5x5 52.5kg

I use percentages of my 1rm and added 2.5kg (upper) 5kg(lower) for progression
Percentage wise I use 70% for 4x8 80% for 5x5 and 90% for 3x3.

I understand the programme for 531 BBB and the %â??s used.

I understand that it uses a TM of 90% 1RM and start light and build up over cycles.

However my question is re the 50% weight for my bench on the BBB sets it is very low in comparison to that I used for my last cycle of 4x8.

I worked it out that I have an estimated 1rm between 83-92KG, which would give me a TM of 75-83KG

This would give me a Bench BBB weight of between 37.5KG and 41.5KG which is extremely low, and I donâ??t see how I would improve by using such a light weight some 25.5 to 23.5 KG less than my current 4x8 KGâ??s

Should I just use a higher % for the BBB sets closer to my current 4x8?


#2

You can use whatever percentage works for you. The 50% is a general guide that is a good starting point for most people. For me 50% seems to be pretty good on lower body lifts, while for upper body lifts a tend to go a little higher. Remember BBB is to be done after 5/3/1 sets; so, not when you are fresh.

You could try 50% for a week and seeing how is goes. Another option is a ramp (either up or down or both) your BBB sets.


#3

I’d follow the book and start with 50% (or less) for a cycle or two, then decide if it’s too light. If it is, huzzah, the book has an answer for that as well!

Buy the book and follow it and your questions will be answered.


#4

[quote]corndiggity wrote:
I’d follow the book and start with 50% (or less) for a cycle or two, then decide if it’s too light. If it is, huzzah, the book has an answer for that as well!

Buy the book and follow it and your questions will be answered.[/quote]

I have the books both first edition and beyond I also looked on Mr Wendler’s site. My question was aimed for people who have done the template and can give advice based on personal experience so that I can make an informed decision on the best percentage to use.
However I thank you for your input.


#5

[quote]JMac31 wrote:
You can use whatever percentage works for you. The 50% is a general guide that is a good starting point for most people. For me 50% seems to be pretty good on lower body lifts, while for upper body lifts a tend to go a little higher. Remember BBB is to be done after 5/3/1 sets; so, not when you are fresh.

You could try 50% for a week and seeing how is goes. Another option is a ramp (either up or down or both) your BBB sets.[/quote]

Thank you for the advice based on your personal experience. It seems that the lower body percentages work out well for me as well, So I will set the upper body higher.
Happy lifting.


#6

I have done the BBB template for over 8 months.

I just followed the template in the book.

SInce you have the book, not sure why you are asking?! It’s also the most (from what I have seen) used template and all questions have been answered about it. Why not trust his judgement since you want to follow his program?


#7

[quote]JFG wrote:
I have done the BBB template for over 8 months.

I just followed the template in the book.

SInce you have the book, not sure why you are asking?! It’s also the most (from what I have seen) used template and all questions have been answered about it. Why not trust his judgement since you want to follow his program?[/quote]

I’ll try to rephrase the question

I am asking as the weights it suggests (50%) are so light I wanted others experience of doing the programme and what they found.

Yesterday I did my normal 3x3 at 90% 1rm bench, after I did 5x10 at 50% to see what it felt like. It was too easy and I took 30-45secs between each set as it was not taxing. Yes I know it should not be to failure but it should surely require a little effort.

I don’t want to roll back my weight for reps by 23kg or more, and spend 9 to 10 cycles waiting to get back to the 5x10 weights I was lifting before I started.

Hence the question asking for advice on what people found from there own experience doing the 5x10 in a similar situation.


#8

I’ll also rephrase.

Page 47 of the Second Edition.

As he puts it, who cares. You are questioning the program before trying it. Give your all in 5/3/1 and get the BBB like you wish. Just get it down.

Or, if you have the balls, try the 3 month challenge.

Good luck.


#9

I also did not like using such light weight on BBB so I switched to FSL and I’m loving it.


#10

I did the bbb 3 month challenge earlier and really liked it. The first month with the assistance set at 50% felt really easy, second month with 60% was a bit harder and the third month with 70% really tested my body. For an example benchpressing the 5*10 at 100 kg, talk about soreness and pump. I can recomend the 3 month challenge if you “worry” about the assistance %. I myself will do another 3 month challenge soon again as it worked nice. Really liked the assistance % progression in the 3 month challenge which I find lacking in the other bbb programs


#11

[quote]Vefen wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
I have done the BBB template for over 8 months.

I just followed the template in the book.

SInce you have the book, not sure why you are asking?! It’s also the most (from what I have seen) used template and all questions have been answered about it. Why not trust his judgement since you want to follow his program?[/quote]

I’ll try to rephrase the question

I am asking as the weights it suggests (50%) are so light I wanted others experience of doing the programme and what they found.

Yesterday I did my normal 3x3 at 90% 1rm bench, after I did 5x10 at 50% to see what it felt like. It was too easy and I took 30-45secs between each set as it was not taxing. Yes I know it should not be to failure but it should surely require a little effort.

I don’t want to roll back my weight for reps by 23kg or more, and spend 9 to 10 cycles waiting to get back to the 5x10 weights I was lifting before I started.

Hence the question asking for advice on what people found from there own experience doing the 5x10 in a similar situation.
[/quote]

You are confusing training to improve your best with displaying your best.

I think basing a long term programming decision based upon what you feel now is going to return poor results long term.

Let the program work for you, the first month or two will feel light, your bodyw probably needs it.

If you’re scared of taking a long term focus, concerned more about how fatigued you get in a workout over the quality of work, this is probably not the program for you.


#12

Simply do multiple FSL sets, described in the beyond book!


#13

FSL at 5 reps is strength based.

BBB is Hypertrophy based.

He would be better off following the 5/3 concept.

2 cycles BBB
2 Cycles FSL
1 Cycle go nuts
Dial back
Repeat.

But then again, he does not quite understand the long term aspect.


#14

[quote]JFG wrote:
FSL at 5 reps is strength based.

BBB is Hypertrophy based.

He would be better off following the 5/3 concept.

2 cycles BBB
2 Cycles FSL
1 Cycle go nuts
Dial back
Repeat.

But then again, he does not quite understand the long term aspect.

[/quote]

Sorry but FSL Multiple Sets are 3-5 sets of 5-8 reps @ 65% (each week higher percentages). When he goes to 8reps then it should be nice in the hypertrophy range, am i wrong with that?


#15

I’ve always done 50, 55, 60 on weeks 1,2,3, respectively.
Having said that, “Beyond” has tons of variations using different percentages and rep ranges. I have also done FSL every week at 5x10 for stretches. Furthermore, I have done stretches staying at 45-50% and used defecits for dead lift BBB, cambered bar bench or paused benches for my bench BBB, and paused squats for the squat BBB. There is always a way to make exercises more challenging without dicking with the percentages - or you could just follow a different version - trust me - there is a variation that will cause you pain if you so desire.


#16

But then again, he does not quite understand the long term aspect.

[/quote]

I fully understand the long term concept. I find your statement to be totally arrogant and patronising that you think you can tell others what I do or do not understand.

What seems to be lost to some ppl replying is the actual question I was asking.

Which has actually been answered by the 2 or 3 people that understood (and I thank those) the question and had been in a similar position to me when they started.

My question has been answered so it does not need to be discussed anymore and if I knew how to close the thread I would.


#17

I would follow the program as written - I have done it 10000000 more times than anyone.


#18

You are really over complicating the whole thing. It will take time to figure out the “perfect percentage” to use for each lift. I know people who have used 50%, 55% and hell even 60%. You have to figure it out for yourself, no one can tell you.


#19

If you push your main set hard, and I mean really REALLY fucking hard, then that 50% BBB set is going to feel a lot harder than 50%. If it doesn’t feel difficult you need to prioritize killing it on that main set.