T Nation

Advice for Starting TRT


#1

What's up fellas,

I'm starting TRT and and it would be beneficial to get some input from others who have already been there.

I'm a 5'10 160LB 22 year old male at 9%BF (ETA I train 6x per week, 2 upper, 2 lower+conditioning, and 2 ab days. Routine has changed, but I've been training for 7 years). Multiple blood draws have shown 321 total T and 6.6 Free T. I exhibit all of the symptoms of low T and have tested to rule out the possibility that my symptoms were from something more serious like cancer or pituitary tumors.

After repeated blood draws my endocrinologist said that he wanted to start me on TRT and that his assistant would give me a call with the details. I got the call and the endo's TRT plan calls for injecting 100mg of Test Cypionate every other week.

In the research that I've done it seems like it should be injected at least once per week at that dosage due to the half life of the drug. Also I'm concerned with being able to have kids and keep my sperm count up, so I was surprised that he did not prescribe HCG to be taken simultaneously.

What are your guys' thoughts on the Drs' plan and how would you go about addressing the concerns that I have with him?

Thanks in advance for responses.


#2

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:
What’s up fellas,

I’m starting TRT and and it would be beneficial to get some input from others who have already been there.

I’m a 5’10 160LB 22 year old male at 9%BF (ETA I train 6x per week, 2 upper, 2 lower+conditioning, and 2 ab days. Routine has changed, but I’ve been training for 7 years). Multiple blood draws have shown 321 total T and 6.6 Free T. I exhibit all of the symptoms of low T and have tested to rule out the possibility that my symptoms were from something more serious like cancer or pituitary tumors.

After repeated blood draws my endocrinologist said that he wanted to start me on TRT and that his assistant would give me a call with the details. I got the call and the endo’s TRT plan calls for injecting 100mg of Test Cypionate every other week.

In the research that I’ve done it seems like it should be injected at least once per week at that dosage due to the half life of the drug. Also I’m concerned with being able to have kids and keep my sperm count up, so I was surprised that he did not prescribe HCG to be taken simultaneously.

What are your guys’ thoughts on the Drs’ plan and how would you go about addressing the concerns that I have with him?

Thanks in advance for responses. [/quote]

Did you ever experiment with any steroid before? If so, how long ago?

I’d always suggest to try to start with gel at first and see how it goes, possibly later switch to injections but not as the first thing specially at your age. Trt is usually for life. Gel will still cause infertility as well as injection.

You have to ask for the Hcg and express you’re worried about the baby issue.

It would be good idea to do sperm count BEFORE you start trt because it also means alot in this case, regarding your future and sperm count.

The half life of cyp is approx 8 days aka bit over week or so. It’s individual for all, just an approximation.

After week you have 50% left, after 2 weeks you have 25% left and divide the remaining dose every 8 days by half. The stuff stays in you longer than you expect it does.

The injection in smaller dosages more frequently is to prevent peaking and levels from fluctuating so much. With injection i don’t think every two weeks is the way to go with 100mg, none can tell how you will feel with it but levels will fluctuate and you could notice big highs and lows in energy levels ( not only in gym, in normal life ). Your bodys hormonal function certainly will.

Later on the fertility issues can be tried to treat with Clomid aswell and it seems to be the popular choice at the moment atleast. It’s no where near 100% guarantee you will get your sperm count back to what it was. However the state you were before starting trt also matters in this case.

In the end, trt can cause the downside of permanent infertility specially if you had low sperm count in the first place and is to be considered if the trade off is worth it to you personally.

Talk with the doctor about this.

Somehow i see stories about very irresponsible doctors in this forum very frequently and it makes me wonder.

It’s really great thing you think about this as not many guys in their 20’s gives a flying shit about possible future kids.


#3

Thanks Divyx,

A lot of great info in that post. I did use steroids about 13 months ago. Used in an attempt to keep my football career alive after injury, didn’t work out, and I seriously regret that I did it.

I don’t know what effect that will have on my treatment going forward though (if I decide to follow through with TRT). I haven’t been able to find many studies or much research on how or if previous short-term use changes treatment plans. The kid thing still freaks me out and gives me cold feet about the whole deal, even if TRT would keep me from feeling so sick.


#4

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:
Thanks Divyx,

A lot of great info in that post. I did use steroids about 13 months ago. Used in an attempt to keep my football career alive after injury, didn’t work out, and I seriously regret that I did it.

I don’t know what effect that will have on my treatment going forward though (if I decide to follow through with TRT). I haven’t been able to find many studies or much research on how or if previous short-term use changes treatment plans. The kid thing still freaks me out and gives me cold feet about the whole deal, even if TRT would keep me from feeling so sick.[/quote]

Hi.

It’s all so very subjective in this matter.

The previous cycle might turn things around a lot in your case.

There is possibility, even high possibility, that your present low T is because of the cycle you did even though it’s 13 months ago. Would need to know what you took, how much, how long, how often, did you use any hcg or serm or just plain androgen steroid by itself?. Please let me know.

If you didn’t do any post cycle therapy, there are guys in our planet who have had as high recovery times as couple years, or they never really recovered. Again this is very subjective from person to person and depends on multitude of factors. I’m just saying that one improper cycle can become a burden of a life time.

Don’t jump on traditional TRT ( testosterone gel / injections ) train just yet, it might be that Clomid after all could be the better solution for you. I’m not usually trustful of long term clomid use but there are many persons who have been on it for 10+ years. I’d ask about this from your doctor and see how he feels about it. Clomid is a common drug to treat male infertility, it will raise your testosterone levels and you can control aromataze with ai if/when necessary and it raises sperm count and mobility of swimmers. There can be some interesting side effects with long term use that are nasty, most drugs can do this ofc. One being blurness of vision ( even permanent ) and mood swings just like dear ladies in their periods. Don’t worry it won’t make you feminine though… :slight_smile:

Oh for the football injury you would had been a lot better off with growth hormone instead of some anabolic steroid, but i understand you propably couldn’t have gotten it anywhere or afford it in the first place.

You really need to show us some labs and if you don’t have such, you need to take them.

Want to know these as a starter atleast:

Total testo
Free testo
Lh / fsh
prolactin
e2 / estradiol
shbg ( if possible )


#5

[quote]Divyx wrote:

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:
Thanks Divyx,

A lot of great info in that post. I did use steroids about 13 months ago. Used in an attempt to keep my football career alive after injury, didn’t work out, and I seriously regret that I did it.

I don’t know what effect that will have on my treatment going forward though (if I decide to follow through with TRT). I haven’t been able to find many studies or much research on how or if previous short-term use changes treatment plans. The kid thing still freaks me out and gives me cold feet about the whole deal, even if TRT would keep me from feeling so sick.[/quote]

Hi.

It’s all so very subjective in this matter.

The previous cycle might turn things around a lot in your case.

There is possibility, even high possibility, that your present low T is because of the cycle you did even though it’s 13 months ago. Would need to know what you took, how much, how long, how often, did you use any hcg or serm or just plain androgen steroid by itself?. Please let me know.

If you didn’t do any post cycle therapy, there are guys in our planet who have had as high recovery times as couple years, or they never really recovered. Again this is very subjective from person to person and depends on multitude of factors. I’m just saying that one improper cycle can become a burden of a life time.

Don’t jump on traditional TRT ( testosterone gel / injections ) train just yet, it might be that Clomid after all could be the better solution for you. I’m not usually trustful of long term clomid use but there are many persons who have been on it for 10+ years. I’d ask about this from your doctor and see how he feels about it. Clomid is a common drug to treat male infertility, it will raise your testosterone levels and you can control aromataze with ai if/when necessary and it raises sperm count and mobility of swimmers. There can be some interesting side effects with long term use that are nasty, most drugs can do this ofc. One being blurness of vision ( even permanent ) and mood swings just like dear ladies in their periods. Don’t worry it won’t make you feminine though… :slight_smile:

Oh for the football injury you would had been a lot better off with growth hormone instead of some anabolic steroid, but i understand you propably couldn’t have gotten it anywhere or afford it in the first place.

You really need to show us some labs and if you don’t have such, you need to take them.

Want to know these as a starter atleast:

Total testo
Free testo
Lh / fsh
prolactin
e2 / estradiol
shbg ( if possible )

[/quote]

Cycle was Test Prop 100mg/eod, 70mg anavar/ed lasted for 12 weeks and then went to PCT of 4 weeks of nolva at 40/30/20/10 and chlomid at 100/100/50/50.

Total Test= 321
Free Test= 6.6
PRL= 7.6
LH= 2.0
FSH= 2.6
Total Globulin= 2.1
Total Albumin= 4.9
FWIW T3 is very low at 40


#6

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:

What are your guys’ thoughts on the Drs’ plan and how would you go about addressing the concerns that I have with him?

                                [/quote]

My thought is that your doc’s plan is awful. The standard dose for Testosterone cypionate is 100 mg per week. You can maintain or restore fertility with 250 to 500 IU of HCG twice per week.

Find another doctor who knows what he is doing. A doctor who is silly enough to give 100 mg per week is not even worth talking to or with whom one should continue.

As I’ve said elsewhere, having worked in healthcare for over a decade, I’ve come to think many doctors are glorified bums or despite having qualifications are terrible in their application of medicine or are not nearly as sophisticated as many of us would think they are–that is, they are not special.


#7

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:

[quote]Divyx wrote:

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:
Thanks Divyx,

A lot of great info in that post. I did use steroids about 13 months ago. Used in an attempt to keep my football career alive after injury, didn’t work out, and I seriously regret that I did it.

I don’t know what effect that will have on my treatment going forward though (if I decide to follow through with TRT). I haven’t been able to find many studies or much research on how or if previous short-term use changes treatment plans. The kid thing still freaks me out and gives me cold feet about the whole deal, even if TRT would keep me from feeling so sick.[/quote]

Hi.

It’s all so very subjective in this matter.

The previous cycle might turn things around a lot in your case.

There is possibility, even high possibility, that your present low T is because of the cycle you did even though it’s 13 months ago. Would need to know what you took, how much, how long, how often, did you use any hcg or serm or just plain androgen steroid by itself?. Please let me know.

If you didn’t do any post cycle therapy, there are guys in our planet who have had as high recovery times as couple years, or they never really recovered. Again this is very subjective from person to person and depends on multitude of factors. I’m just saying that one improper cycle can become a burden of a life time.

Don’t jump on traditional TRT ( testosterone gel / injections ) train just yet, it might be that Clomid after all could be the better solution for you. I’m not usually trustful of long term clomid use but there are many persons who have been on it for 10+ years. I’d ask about this from your doctor and see how he feels about it. Clomid is a common drug to treat male infertility, it will raise your testosterone levels and you can control aromataze with ai if/when necessary and it raises sperm count and mobility of swimmers. There can be some interesting side effects with long term use that are nasty, most drugs can do this ofc. One being blurness of vision ( even permanent ) and mood swings just like dear ladies in their periods. Don’t worry it won’t make you feminine though… :slight_smile:

Oh for the football injury you would had been a lot better off with growth hormone instead of some anabolic steroid, but i understand you propably couldn’t have gotten it anywhere or afford it in the first place.

You really need to show us some labs and if you don’t have such, you need to take them.

Want to know these as a starter atleast:

Total testo
Free testo
Lh / fsh
prolactin
e2 / estradiol
shbg ( if possible )

[/quote]

Cycle was Test Prop 100mg/eod, 70mg anavar/ed lasted for 12 weeks and then went to PCT of 4 weeks of nolva at 40/30/20/10 and chlomid at 100/100/50/50.

Total Test= 321
Free Test= 6.6
PRL= 7.6
LH= 2.0
FSH= 2.6
Total Globulin= 2.1
Total Albumin= 4.9
FWIW T3 is very low at 40

[/quote]

Thanks for the info.
I’m afraid i cannot comment on the doses of nolva and chlomid and i’m not qualified to comment either why you took both of them daily? I know some people have done so but, sorry i don’t know enough about the dual use.

Would really had liked to see estradiol and recommend you to take thyroid labs tsh, t3 & t4. T3 itself cannot identify possible hypothyroidism. Globulin on the low side of ref ranges. Albumin is ok. Prolactin is good. Lh is on the low side as well. Also the SHBG ( sex hormone binding globulin ) would be interesting to know.

I agree with Brickhead in all that he says.
I personally know some doctors. Some are alcoholic to a degree.

Clearly good in school, bad in everything else. Being smart definitely doesn’t equal of being wise. Specially with TRT issues this forum is full of ( edit: stories ) about totally incompetent doctors, and most users would make better TRT doc than actual doctors. That tells you something doesn’t it.

100mg in one shot, every 2 weeks is a road you don’t want to take.
I think we all can agree with that.


#8

Wanted to update with a couple of new labs.

SHBGH came back high at 68.

Prolactin within the norm, but on the low side at 5.7

Total Test came back at 217 this test.

What does the high SHGBH mean?


#9

Your PCT was bad and you should attempt an HPTA restart before doing TRT.
"PCT of 4 weeks of nolva at 40/30/20/10 and chlomid at 100/100/50/50. "
Doses way too high - stop getting bro-science advice from body builder sites
LH levels would be very high, desensitization of LH receptors possible and E2 levels could have been very high, when SERM stopped, HPTA choked on E2 and high SHBG.

Never stack SERMs, never take high SERM doses, never stack SERM+hCG.

First please read these stickies:

  • things that damage your hormones
  • advice for new guys

Post all of you lab work in one place, in list format, WITH LAB RANGES


#10

[quote]Phoblacht wrote:
Wanted to update with a couple of new labs.

SHBGH came back high at 68.

Prolactin within the norm, but on the low side at 5.7

Total Test came back at 217 this test.

What does the high SHGBH mean?[/quote]

Best to google it bro.

Seeing your high SHBG and low T, in your case it almost certainly means that you have hypogonadism and need to start TRT. Best to take the normal labs including thyroid and liver ones.

EDIT: Do what KSMan tells.