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Advice for PCT? (Not a Bodybuilder)

Hello guys, im an post Accutane sufferer. Please keep this discussion out from this topic because it has proven that Accutane could damage you permanently as well as Finasteride. I have sexual side effects for 4 years from this drug!! Those are:

  • Low semen volume.
  • Lowered intensity and pleasure of orgasms.
  • Morning wood loss .

Im 20 year old and i tried every natural hormone boosters for my sexual side effects. Nothing worked sustainably yet… Now i want to jump to steroids as for PCT, for possible recovery. I want to ask you that which drug should i use first to rise up my NATURAL baseline of Testesterone and DHT? ( Im not going to use TRT because it shuts you down after the usage) I have acsess to:

  • Proviron.
  • Nolvadex or Clomid.
  • HCG injections.

So… with which one or in combination between them should i experiment with first?

  • Would low dose of Proviron can cause sustainable sexual improvements AFTER the usage? Is there a chance of HPTA suppression or Testesterone suppression from Proviron?

  • Will HCG and Nolvadex is a good combo? What kind of a protocol should i try if Proviron alone is not good for me? Will HCG shut my testicles down? What if i use it with Proviron or Nolva??? Any other combinations would appreciated…

Also im posting my bloodwork, make a comment if you see anything wrong with my levels. (Im aware of Vit D deficiency)

My blood results at the age of 17:

  • Total T= 4.55 ng\mL
  • Free T= 19.52 pg\mL
  • Growth Hormone= 0.13 ng\mL

My actual bloodtest at the age of 19:

  • IGF-1 (CLIA)= 170.00 ng\mL ---- 16-18 years old= 173-414 19-21 yrs old= 173-23
  • DHT= 309 pg\mL ---- 19-55 years old= 112-955
  • Creatine= 0.81 mg\dL ---- 0.72- 1.25
  • FSH= 1.45 mIU\ml ---- 0.95- 11.95
  • LH= 2.42 mIU\ml ---- 0.57- 12.07
  • Prolactin= 10.70 ng\ml ---- 3.46- 19.4
  • PSA= 0.653 ng\ml ---- 0.4
  • Free T3= 2.37 pg\mL ---- 1.71- 3.71
  • Free T4= 0.96 ng\dL ---- 0.7- 1.48
  • Total T= 5.51 ng\mL ---- 1.42- 9.23
  • TSH= 1.55 IU\mL — 0.43- 4.2
  • Vitamin D 19.52 ng\mL ---- 40-80
  • DHEA= 660 ug\dL ---- 238.4- 539.3

Please help me :slight_smile: im so desperate these days, my penis looks like a hourglass in shape sometimes… probably experiencing estrogen dominance due to bad respond to natural Amino acids i tried…

Those numbers are kind of helpful but you may need to post more if you have them. For instance, what’s e2 currently? SHBG?

As far as what you’re looking for it seems like the answer might be what’s called monotherapy. Docs use Clomid for this purpose. It’s a short term, lower dose protocol that is aimed at kicking up your natural testosterone production. So unlike trt, which as the name implies replaces natura test, Clomid monotherapy works to bring your baseline up. Once it’s been run (and I don’t know how long most docs have you run it, but it’s not more than a few months) you cease the drug and go back to life as usual.

You will want to avoid proviron as it will suppress your testosterone. Ditto hCg. Those both have their uses, but not for your specific case. I would say look into Clomid monotherapy and see if it fits with your goals.

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Thanks, i want to do another E2 test but its so expensive here. Do you think that my IGF-1 is low? And is there any chance it was low for 4 years due to Accutane and it actually affected my growth? (Height)

Anyways, so you say that it is best to start with Clomid alone first then… also where do you know Proviron suppresses Testesterone? Please share an offical study or paper…

Most importantly, will clomid lower my natural baseline after the usage? I mean there is no shutdown risk if i use correctly, right? Thanks very much…

Clomid will not cause shutdown. It does the exact opposite, so no worry there. As far as proviron being suppressive it’s kind of a straight line. Any anabolic-androgenic steroid is going to suppress testosterone production. It’s just how the drugs interact with the endocrine system. It’s why they work. There is no non-suppressive steroid you can take. Now to what degree each is suppressive is another matter.

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Any other opinion?

Anyone? Please?

What are you looking for?

Pretty much nothing you said made sense, you obviously know nothing about this, then 2 members gave you advice and you’re looking to crowdsource further without trying anything they’ve said, so why should anybody else chime in and help you?

Please explain what made no “sense”. And nobody gave me a credible advice. I don’t really understand your attitude.

The advice was to look into Clomid monotherapy. I’m not posting scientific papers here, kid. If you want to understand the mechanism of action and the effects on the endocrine system then go track those down yourself. Stop being so lazy. You took a drug that is notorious for destroying sexual function and then you were shocked that it destroyed your sexual function. I know of no cure for this. It’s like PFS: lots of sufferers, very few answers. What does your doctor say? What does your therapist say? You know, the people whose medical expertise you pay for? What’s their opinion of your situation?

Well, it’s sexual side effects aren’t known. And they weren’t in the prescription. I didn’t know anything about Accutane and it’s sexual side effects. I would never touch it if i knew or heard anything about it. It made me happy and shocked that you are aware of the dangers of Accutane and Finasteride. Very little of non-sufferers believe into our condition.

Anyways, i made a ton if research and everything came out contradictory. Thats why i ask my questions in this forum where people use these drugs. My doctors find nothing, they are fucking ignorant of everything. Hell! Even im more informed about my condition from them. Anyways… i think im gonna give Proviron a try, looks safer then Nolva. ( I hope you are really older than me…)

Proviron is very safe. That’s not the issue. The issue is that it suppresses your natural testosterone production. So you’ll get some benefit (theoretically; everyone responds differently) at the start but as you continue to take it your body will produce less and less testosterone. That itself comes with a number of negative effects.

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So… maybe Nolva is the only option for me then?
I read that it lowers igf-1 but i don’t know is it permanent or not. Lastly, does the natural T production recovers itself after discontinuing proviron? Am i be able to sustain my sexual benefits permanently? Are benefits temporary, and the damages (natural T production) are permanent?
Im just gonna use it for like 2 weeks at 25mg. Thanks…

The benefits of proviron are temporary. The side effects are also largely temporary. These are not permanent fixes for your underlying problem, but maybe they can help in the meantime. That’s how you need to view it.

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Hello again sir, i used Proviron for 4 weeks. 75mg to 100. (to downregulate my AR’s) and it made me wrose while on it. Off for 2 weeks no changes. I tried to mimick a protocol on propeciahelp .com

All of my sexual sides are slightly worse now. This indicates i have hypersensitive Androgen Receptors due to Accutane Syndrome i guess…

However i was wondering to do a PCT for recovery from this damn disease. I have 450ng/dl of total T low for 21 years old.

My question is what should i use?
Low dose HCG with Proviron to control E
Or
HCG+ Clomid combo? What are the best options? @iron_yuppie I either going to kill myself or recover from this rare disease. Thanks a lot.

My latest hormone tests looks normal E2 was 27 or smth like 30, i can’t really remember but generally all was ok

Did you try Clomid monotherapy?

I just read this and I don’t know what to tell you. You could Google “Clomid monotherapy pubmed” and do what you ask others to do for you. Then you discredit @iron_yuppie without looking at it or reading up. This doesn’t speak well of you.

Did you read up on neurotransmitters?
Did you use the search function in this forum?

We can help you, but you gotta put in the work.

Sorry, i didn’t meant to discredit him. It was two years ago and i was young. I have read some papers but i need to hear some first hand experience.
So can i use Clomid for my underlying problem? I am going to start gym and weightlifting this month. Im thinking to try either HCG or Clomid or both. I heard also some horror stories with Clomid and also permanent leydig cell damage from HCG…
Or maybe Proviron (to bind it to shbg and E.) with HCG.
Which is safer anyone knows? Im thinking to start at low doses while lifting.

I need to increase my androgens and fix my androgen receptors. But i don’t know the last part.

This disease destroyed my whole life i only live for the hope of recovery. I have the libido of a 60 year old man, numb orgasms, soft erections, low and watery semen and penis shrinkage…
@lordgains

Thx.

PS: I made some research and Clomid monotheraphy seems more secure than HCG because HCG can supress LH right? Does clomid have any supression side effects? I heard it increases E while on the drug but they lower when you quit? Is that true?

This bloodresults are not really matter for Post Accutane/Finasteride Sufferers because many have 1000ng-dl and correct hormones and still experience brutal sexual side effects. The issue thought to be on the androgen receptors themselves. But i post mine anyways:

FSH 1,68 - 1,5 - 12,4 IU/L
LH 4,24 1,7 - 8,6 IU/L
Estradiol 30,96 pg/ml 11,3 - 43,2
Prolaktin 12,1 ng/ml 4,04 - 15,2
Testosteron, Total 4,66 ng/ml 2,49 - 8,36
PSA, Total 0,937 ng/ml 0 - 2,5
Progesteron 1,09 ng/mL 0,14 - 2,06
DHEA-S (Dehidroepiandrosteron Sülfat) 508,4 ug/dl 85 - 690
(Growth Hormon) 0,784 ng/mL 0 - 0 <5,0
Testosteron, Free 22,55 pg/mL 4,5 - 42
Dihidrotestosteron (DHT) 800,72 pg/mL 250 - 990
(SHBG) 23 nmol/L 10 - 57
Somatomedin C 212,1 ng/mL 116 - 358

I did this test two months ago. : ) (There is something wrong about this site’s writing blanks. I can’t edit or make empty space. Results of mine are the first numbers, other two is reference ranges.)

First of all, I have great sympathy for your situation. And I know you’ll beat it eventually. You just gotta be more stubborn than your problems.

That’s something I like to hear! Looks good!

I’ll point you in the right direction.

Your HPT works like this: brain signals to hypothalamus to send out GnRH. This binds to its receptors at the pituitary. The pituitary then secretes LH and FSH which bind to their receptors in the testicles. The testicles produce Testosterone (and DHT and Estrogens). This then gets converted to E2 in the periphery. So your blood now contains T and E2.

Clomid blocks the E2 receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary. These receptors are there to provide a feedback loop, which means if E2 is high, then GnRH, LH and FSH will not be secreted.

So: Clomid increases GnRH, LH, FSH, T, E2 and DHT.
It ENHANCES and heightens HPT function.

Now hCG is nothing but a hormone that binds and activates LH receptors ergo it stimulates the Testis directly. The problem is: hCG will decrease GnRH, LH and FSH.

So both have their application. HCG is indicated when you want to stimulate your testicles and Clomifen when you want to get your whole axis going.

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