T Nation

Advice for Cutting

Hey there. I recently finished an oral-only cycle of 35-50mg Dbol/day and 50mg Winny/day for 5 weeks. I made some great muscle gains, but due to the fact I was eating everything in sight, also gained just a little bit of fat. However, it’s pissing me off. I have a ton of new muscle to show off this summer and some of it is buried. I am done with my first week of PCT on 150mg Clomid/day, but to be honest I don’t think it is necessary. I experienced no loss of libido, no testicular atrophy, and no signs of shutdown. No surprise, since the AAS I was using have short half-lives.

Anyway, I ordered some Lipo-6 and some VasoPro for 2 weeks of cutting. I would like to use these in conjunction with the Velocity Diet. The only thing I’m worried about here is that I’ll be going from 4000 calories per day to 1600 calories per day. I am worried that I might lose muscle? To remedy this, I have a huge stockpile of MAG-10. However, I know that MAG-10 is suppressive to endogenous T production, and I was wondering if it would be safe for me to use it for 2 weeks to prevent muscle wasting after a 5 week oral-only cycle and this 1 week of PCT with Clomid.

Hell, I could even resume the Clomid at 100mg/day after the 2 weeker of MAG-10. I just don’t want to lose all this muscle I gained, but I definitely need to cut.

I’m sorry bro but that’s one of the most facking retarded posts I’ve read in awhile.
Reason#1- Just because you don’t feel suppressed doesn’t mean you aren’ suppressed. YOU ARE.
Reason#2- One week of pct is not going to do ANYTHING after a 5 week cycle. You need at least 5 weeks (more like 6-7 to be certain)
Reason#3- MAG-10 is a steroid. You can’t use a steroid after a five week cycle and one measley litte week of pct and expect to recover. Might come recommended over the two products you mentioned but I think they’ll still work fine.

Now if you’re asking about running a 7 week cycle using 5 weeks dbol-winny and 2 MAG-10 while cutting go ahead. However that doesn’t sound like what you’re describing. It would seem like the MAG-10 was an after thought once you started pct. If you really made good gains then just trust your pct protocol/diet/training and you should be fine. BTW Maximum Strength HOT-ROX

Alrighty. Well this is my first cycle so it can be a little difficult to trust training and protocol sometimes. Especially when you come off the dbol and get that “shrinking” feeling although your scale weight stays the same. Also, I wasn’t aware of how much MAG-10 suppressed the endogenous T production. Now I know it is a bad idea.

However, would cutting cals and using the fat burners I mentioned without the MAG-10 screw up my PCT and cause me to lose gains? I have heard cutting cals in PCT is a bad thing. However, towards the last week if the cycle I started dropping cals anyway. I was at about 3500 the last week of the cycle, as opposed to 4000 during the other 4. I will cut it to 3000 this week and maybe start the V-diet next week with 2500? Sound alright?

I also say would have wasted any chance at recovery if you were to start another cycle of MAG-10 no matter how short or how not shut down you “feel”.

I am however very interested in what people think about going straight from a mass cycle to cutting while doing PCT?


Being that you didn’t get offensive despite me being kinda harsh on you I’ll be nice now;-) Cutting your calories after a bulking cycle is a terrible idea unless you want to lose alot of your gains. YOU ARE SUPPRESSED therefore you want to give your body alot of food protein/carbs/healthy fats and cut back on your training intensity.

By dieting down you’ll be putting your already catabolic (low test level) body in an even more catabolic state = lots of gains lost. Some people can do this and not lose muscle. MOST cannot and considering it’s your first go round I wouldn’t bother trying it. You can however use your thermo’s to keep you from gaining fat while still eating big and perhaps lean out a little bit. Don’t expect to get shredded though as the more important issue is recovering from your cycle and keeping the gains you worked for in the first place. The summer is still a ways off young buck so take it easy;-)

Hope that helps a bit bro.

I absolutely agree with Wideguy. I would add, however, that with some experience you can tell when your endogenous T levels are returning to normal, but it is much harder, in my experience, to tell when they are low. Kind of paradoxical, but I can feel good after a cycle–mood, strength, energy, etc.–when I know damn well that I’m not recovered yet (and there are no more AAS in my system).

As far as cutting after a cycle: I always eat HYPERcaloric for the first week, isocaloric the second, and by the third week I usually cut calories (moderately) and start hitting the cardio consistently–this is regardless if I’m finishing a bulking or a cutting cycle.

I don’t ever have a problem with loosing a lot of my gains during PCT.I credit this partly to the excellent quality of my PCT supplies, and partly to hitting PCT pretty hard, a la Mikekatz (two week alternating cycles of Clomid and Nolvadex). Just remember, NEVER stop AAS use and immediately cut calories and start cardio; this is just too much stress on an already catabolic body.


Thanks guys, interesting stuff. I predicted what the answers would be, but I was just making sure. I was reading, however, that ephedrine helps preserve muscle mass to some extent and is good for PCT. I’m going to throw it in for the hell of it starting next week. I’ll let you know if I lose all my gains or if I do just fine.

Oh by the way, seeing as I have already tarded up this thread, I’m going to tard it up some more.

I have alot of Dbol sitting around and alot of MAG-10 sitting around and I don’t feel like shelling out another 300 bucks for a complete cycle. When recovery is complete, would it be a bad idea to use Dbol with MAG-10? I know other things would be far more effective but I’m asking if there is any reason I shouldn’t.

like wideguy and crowbar said, you don’t wanna put your already catabolic body into FURTHER catabolism by going into a caloric defecit.

after a cycle you’re going to have a major cortisol rebound, especially when coming off of d-bol.

i say finish PCT, then do whatever you like to focus on melting the fat.

Hey bro I actually did a 3weeker of the cycle you are talking about a little bit ago. Look up the thread…AD50?..
It has the diffrent ways I took it and how it effected me towards the end of the thread.
Good luck