Advice for Biceps?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
Hi,

I am training biceps et this way for 4 months:

4 sets heavy barbell curl (5 reps), rest = 2’
3 sets middle heavy spider curl (10-12 reps), rest = 1’30’’
3 sets light incline hammer curl (15 reps), rest = 1’

Each workout i had add weight or rep on each exercise, meaning progression Butâ?¦ No difference with de measurement !! why ?

What’s your advise on biceps training ? should i do more volume (more sets) ? should i continue with this program because i progress ?[/quote]

Couple of things:

Why are you resting 1-2 min between sets? Drop that to 15-30 sec, maybe go 45 as fatigue really hits.

You haven’t switched up rep ranges, total volume, or exercises for 4 months now? I’d cycle exercises once every 2-4 weeks and change reps and/or volume weekly. I’m not just talking about adding a rep here and there and adding 5lbs here and there.

Can you post a vid of yourself next time you train each of these lifts? I can only speculate, but I’m assuming you’re probably lifting too much weight and not getting enough TUT out of each set.

As others have mentioned, gaining weight could really help forward your cause; however, it’s by no means necessary if you’re not currently lean and aren’t comfortable with adding weight. You just have to be spot on with the diet, so as to be in re-comp mode.

22

[quote]Aopocetx wrote:

As for volume, your biceps recover quickly so I would say doing them twice a week is best, but do less weight or less volume every other day. Don’t double the volume - more like add 50%. That’s what I did when my bi’s were lagging to bring them up and it worked pretty great.

I wanna ask people in this thread a question. What do you think about the range of motion requirement for biceps? I used to think that you needed full range of motion for every exercise (straight bar curls, preacher, etc) but now I find my biceps grow better with a little of both. For example, I’ll do a lot of partial ROM preacher curls, really focusing on feeling the muscle, along with full ROM straight bar and dumbbell curls. [/quote]

I agree, I hit biceps 3x a week, but I tend to respond better to frequency > volume on almost all things.

and yeah, partial ‘pump’ style movements are great, and following them up with a full stretched ROM variation just feels right. I think that’s a JM technique actually

23

I have to agree with the advice to add volume slowly.

One scheme that worked for me in the past was to do heavy barbell curls after bench or overhead press. 5 or 6 sets of heavy barbell curls, or hammer curls. This was on “bench day” or chest day, or upper day depending on the split I was on. On a full body H/L/M plan it would have been on “heavy” day. This was full range of motion, strength work.

Then I had a second “arms” day where bi’s and tri’s were worked together. More variety of exercises, higher reps, etc. This day is all about good pumps, mind muscle connection, “feeling it.” On a split, this day was part of the routine. On a full body plan, this was an “extra” day done in addition to the 3 regular workouts.

As I got more conditioned and more swole I would do some high rep 1 arm tricep pushdowns really light for a few sets on a 3rd day. Nothing tough, just get a pump. You could easily throw in some curls.

The mixture of partial and full range movements is also great. Sometimes a concentration curl or a zottman curl, almost isn’t a “movement” anymore. It gets to the point where I’m almost kinda trying twist my wrist, squeeze my bicep and crush the dumbbell handle more than I’m trying to “curl.”

24

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
Hi,

I am training biceps et this way for 4 months:

4 sets heavy barbell curl (5 reps), rest = 2’
3 sets middle heavy spider curl (10-12 reps), rest = 1’30’’
3 sets light incline hammer curl (15 reps), rest = 1’

Each workout i had add weight or rep on each exercise, meaning progression But�¢?�¦ No difference with de measurement !! why ?

What’s your advise on biceps training ? should i do more volume (more sets) ? should i continue with this program because i progress ?[/quote]

Couple of things:

Why are you resting 1-2 min between sets? Drop that to 15-30 sec, maybe go 45 as fatigue really hits.

You haven’t switched up rep ranges, total volume, or exercises for 4 months now? I’d cycle exercises once every 2-4 weeks and change reps and/or volume weekly. I’m not just talking about adding a rep here and there and adding 5lbs here and there.

Can you post a vid of yourself next time you train each of these lifts? I can only speculate, but I’m assuming you’re probably lifting too much weight and not getting enough TUT out of each set.

As others have mentioned, gaining weight could really help forward your cause; however, it’s by no means necessary if you’re not currently lean and aren’t comfortable with adding weight. You just have to be spot on with the diet, so as to be in re-comp mode. [/quote]

Yeah i think i have to cycle my training. But in which way ? i find there is too many parameters you can change, like exercises, number of reps, number of sets, rest time, frequency, intensity technique, etc.

I would like to plan a training where i can know every weeks if i progress or not. i mean, if i change exercises sequence every 2 weeks, it’s not possible to tell if i progress or not; the CNS adapt but biceps don’t have time to (grow). if i change rest time i cannot compare the training from my previous…

25

[quote]Aopocetx wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
I thought doing iso-hold for 2 seconds on the tops of de movement, good ?[/quote]

The general idea is good but I would say do it mid-range because generally when you’re curling, the top portion is where your biceps are least activated.

What I did to get a good mind muscle connection with biceps is light weight concentration curls where I put my index finger of the opposite hand on my bicep and focus on really feeling it.

As for volume, your biceps recover quickly so I would say doing them twice a week is best, but do less weight or less volume every other day. Don’t double the volume - more like add 50%. That’s what I did when my bi’s were lagging to bring them up and it worked pretty great.

[/quote]

Ok.

How many sets for each of your biceps training ? do you increase volume each week or so ?

26

Well I have some pretty decently large arms with only doing direct arm training for about a year now, maybe 1x-2x a week I’ll do biceps I try to pick 3 exercises that:

  1. gives a large ROM
  2. High volume
  3. heavy weight, even if i have to cheat curl a little
27

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

Ok.

How many sets for each of your biceps training ? do you increase volume each week or so ?[/quote]

The volume that works for me might not work for you. I’ve always done a lot of volume… some may respond better to slightly lower volume. Anyway I’ll give you the basics of what I do for biceps.

Barbell Curl - Work up to a ‘heavy’ set and either do 3 sets OR, what I’ve been doing recently, is go for a specific number of reps. So I work up to a weight that I can do for 4-5 reps and use rest pause to complete 25 reps.

The rest isn’t as complicated.

Dumbbell Curls - 3x10. Don’t do these ‘alternating.’ Do your reps with one arm to begin with (your weakest), and then do the same amount with your other arm. The reason that I think this is better than alternating is because if you switch arms every rep, there’s a rest period in between each rep for the specific arm that I believe is too long. I use full ROM for these.

1 Arm Preacher Curls - 4-6x8-12. I always do a lot of sets of these because I really feel the muscle well and I believe they’ll give you a lot of growth. The reps vary day to day but stay in the higher range… for preacher curls, it’s much better to use a lighter weight that you can really feel rather than heavier weight. Most of my sets I do with PARTIAL ROM, staying in the 60-70% of the range where the tension on the muscle is highest.

Concentration Curls - 3-5x8-12. Just so we’re clear - I might have the name wrong - this is the exercise where you have the weight in between your legs in front of you while sitting down, resting your elbow on your leg. Again, lighter weight but full ROM this time. The less sets you did of preachers, the more you do of these. I like to put my finger on my bicep to help feel the muscle, and CONCENTRATE on the feeling. On the last couple sets, I’ll use my other arm to get more reps past failure. Basically kill your bi’s with this.

Reverse Barbell Curl - 2x10-12. I do these at the end to hit the brachialis. Or sometimes I might do hammer curls instead of dumbbell curls but I don’t like to do that because my brachialis starts taking over the other sets.

And then, this is what I do as a finisher:

Grab a small towel and put it through the handle of a relatively light kettlebell. Now grab the towel with both hands to curl the kettlebell. Do as many reps as you can but use a weight that lets you do like no more than 15. You’re gonna feel a strong burn at this point… just keep going.

You asked if you should continue raising the volume. Well, in the beginning you should until you find what kills your biceps by the end of the workout, but you shouldn’t KEEP adding volume to the point where your muscles can’t recover. But keep in mind biceps can take a lot.

There’s probably a lot of details I’m leaving out… you should add some drop sets here and there if you’re feeling good. Maybe do heavy negatives (SPARINGLY) with concentration curls. I like using rest-pause.

That’s the gist of my bicep training. Hope it helps you to create your own program. I’m not saying copy mine, but use the principles. Have one heavy set, use different angles, go from heavy to light… you know the deal.

28

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
Hi,

I am training biceps et this way for 4 months:

4 sets heavy barbell curl (5 reps), rest = 2’
3 sets middle heavy spider curl (10-12 reps), rest = 1’30’’
3 sets light incline hammer curl (15 reps), rest = 1’

Each workout i had add weight or rep on each exercise, meaning progression But�??�??�?�¢?�??�??�?�¦ No difference with de measurement !! why ?

What’s your advise on biceps training ? should i do more volume (more sets) ? should i continue with this program because i progress ?[/quote]

Couple of things:

Why are you resting 1-2 min between sets? Drop that to 15-30 sec, maybe go 45 as fatigue really hits.

You haven’t switched up rep ranges, total volume, or exercises for 4 months now? I’d cycle exercises once every 2-4 weeks and change reps and/or volume weekly. I’m not just talking about adding a rep here and there and adding 5lbs here and there.

Can you post a vid of yourself next time you train each of these lifts? I can only speculate, but I’m assuming you’re probably lifting too much weight and not getting enough TUT out of each set.

As others have mentioned, gaining weight could really help forward your cause; however, it’s by no means necessary if you’re not currently lean and aren’t comfortable with adding weight. You just have to be spot on with the diet, so as to be in re-comp mode. [/quote]

Yeah i think i have to cycle my training. But in which way ? i find there is too many parameters you can change, like exercises, number of reps, number of sets, rest time, frequency, intensity technique, etc.

I would like to plan a training where i can know every weeks if i progress or not. i mean, if i change exercises sequence every 2 weeks, it’s not possible to tell if i progress or not; the CNS adapt but biceps don’t have time to (grow). if i change rest time i cannot compare the training from my previous…

[/quote]

I wouldn’t think of biceps curls or any iso movement for that matter in the same way as a compound movement. “Progressing” every week isn’t always as simple as more reps or more weight. It’s a small muscle group, so that limits your ability to follow a strict linear progression like you would on bench press or squats.

Think of ways to draw out time under tension in sets. Try this on for size:

  1. rope hammer curls, double contraction (so go all the way up, contract hard, halfway down, back up, contract hard again…that’s one rep)
  2. EZ bar preacher curls: just focus on controlled reps and hard squeeze at top
  3. cable curls: 3 sec up, 3 sec down…yep, a full 3 sec each way

week 1: 3 sets of 8, 1 min rest
week 2: 4 sets of 8, 45 sec rest
week 3: 5 sets of 8, 30 sec rest
week 4: 2 sets of 8, 1 min rest

29

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
I wouldn’t think of biceps curls or any iso movement for that matter in the same way as a compound movement. “Progressing” every week isn’t always as simple as more reps or more weight. It’s a small muscle group, so that limits your ability to follow a strict linear progression like you would on bench press or squats.

Think of ways to draw out time under tension in sets. Try this on for size:

  1. rope hammer curls, double contraction (so go all the way up, contract hard, halfway down, back up, contract hard again…that’s one rep)
  2. EZ bar preacher curls: just focus on controlled reps and hard squeeze at top
  3. cable curls: 3 sec up, 3 sec down…yep, a full 3 sec each way

week 1: 3 sets of 8, 1 min rest
week 2: 4 sets of 8, 45 sec rest
week 3: 5 sets of 8, 30 sec rest
week 4: 2 sets of 8, 1 min rest[/quote]

Thanks for this. I honestly think that ‘progressing’ by adding weight is a great way to butcher isolation movements and make them useless. Exhibit A (trigger warning for horrible music):

30

Rope hammer curls I will definitely try!

31

[quote]Aopocetx wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

Ok.

How many sets for each of your biceps training ? do you increase volume each week or so ?[/quote]

The volume that works for me might not work for you. I’ve always done a lot of volume… some may respond better to slightly lower volume. Anyway I’ll give you the basics of what I do for biceps.

Barbell Curl - Work up to a ‘heavy’ set and either do 3 sets OR, what I’ve been doing recently, is go for a specific number of reps. So I work up to a weight that I can do for 4-5 reps and use rest pause to complete 25 reps.

The rest isn’t as complicated.

Dumbbell Curls - 3x10. Don’t do these ‘alternating.’ Do your reps with one arm to begin with (your weakest), and then do the same amount with your other arm. The reason that I think this is better than alternating is because if you switch arms every rep, there’s a rest period in between each rep for the specific arm that I believe is too long. I use full ROM for these.

1 Arm Preacher Curls - 4-6x8-12. I always do a lot of sets of these because I really feel the muscle well and I believe they’ll give you a lot of growth. The reps vary day to day but stay in the higher range… for preacher curls, it’s much better to use a lighter weight that you can really feel rather than heavier weight. Most of my sets I do with PARTIAL ROM, staying in the 60-70% of the range where the tension on the muscle is highest.

Concentration Curls - 3-5x8-12. Just so we’re clear - I might have the name wrong - this is the exercise where you have the weight in between your legs in front of you while sitting down, resting your elbow on your leg. Again, lighter weight but full ROM this time. The less sets you did of preachers, the more you do of these. I like to put my finger on my bicep to help feel the muscle, and CONCENTRATE on the feeling. On the last couple sets, I’ll use my other arm to get more reps past failure. Basically kill your bi’s with this.

Reverse Barbell Curl - 2x10-12. I do these at the end to hit the brachialis. Or sometimes I might do hammer curls instead of dumbbell curls but I don’t like to do that because my brachialis starts taking over the other sets.

And then, this is what I do as a finisher:

Grab a small towel and put it through the handle of a relatively light kettlebell. Now grab the towel with both hands to curl the kettlebell. Do as many reps as you can but use a weight that lets you do like no more than 15. You’re gonna feel a strong burn at this point… just keep going.

You asked if you should continue raising the volume. Well, in the beginning you should until you find what kills your biceps by the end of the workout, but you shouldn’t KEEP adding volume to the point where your muscles can’t recover. But keep in mind biceps can take a lot.

There’s probably a lot of details I’m leaving out… you should add some drop sets here and there if you’re feeling good. Maybe do heavy negatives (SPARINGLY) with concentration curls. I like using rest-pause.

That’s the gist of my bicep training. Hope it helps you to create your own program. I’m not saying copy mine, but use the principles. Have one heavy set, use different angles, go from heavy to light… you know the deal. [/quote]

Thanks you very much for your complete answer ! I will try the partial ROM preacher curl, it seems to be amazing !

32

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
Hi,

I am training biceps et this way for 4 months:

4 sets heavy barbell curl (5 reps), rest = 2’
3 sets middle heavy spider curl (10-12 reps), rest = 1’30’’
3 sets light incline hammer curl (15 reps), rest = 1’

Each workout i had add weight or rep on each exercise, meaning progression But�??�??�??�?�¢?�??�??�??�?�¦ No difference with de measurement !! why ?

What’s your advise on biceps training ? should i do more volume (more sets) ? should i continue with this program because i progress ?[/quote]

Couple of things:

Why are you resting 1-2 min between sets? Drop that to 15-30 sec, maybe go 45 as fatigue really hits.

You haven’t switched up rep ranges, total volume, or exercises for 4 months now? I’d cycle exercises once every 2-4 weeks and change reps and/or volume weekly. I’m not just talking about adding a rep here and there and adding 5lbs here and there.

Can you post a vid of yourself next time you train each of these lifts? I can only speculate, but I’m assuming you’re probably lifting too much weight and not getting enough TUT out of each set.

As others have mentioned, gaining weight could really help forward your cause; however, it’s by no means necessary if you’re not currently lean and aren’t comfortable with adding weight. You just have to be spot on with the diet, so as to be in re-comp mode. [/quote]

Yeah i think i have to cycle my training. But in which way ? i find there is too many parameters you can change, like exercises, number of reps, number of sets, rest time, frequency, intensity technique, etc.

I would like to plan a training where i can know every weeks if i progress or not. i mean, if i change exercises sequence every 2 weeks, it’s not possible to tell if i progress or not; the CNS adapt but biceps don’t have time to (grow). if i change rest time i cannot compare the training from my previous…

[/quote]

I wouldn’t think of biceps curls or any iso movement for that matter in the same way as a compound movement. “Progressing” every week isn’t always as simple as more reps or more weight. It’s a small muscle group, so that limits your ability to follow a strict linear progression like you would on bench press or squats.

Think of ways to draw out time under tension in sets. Try this on for size:

  1. rope hammer curls, double contraction (so go all the way up, contract hard, halfway down, back up, contract hard again…that’s one rep)
  2. EZ bar preacher curls: just focus on controlled reps and hard squeeze at top
  3. cable curls: 3 sec up, 3 sec down…yep, a full 3 sec each way

week 1: 3 sets of 8, 1 min rest
week 2: 4 sets of 8, 45 sec rest
week 3: 5 sets of 8, 30 sec rest
week 4: 2 sets of 8, 1 min rest[/quote]

it’s the number of sets for each exercises right ? so you do 15 sets on week 3 ?
what is the reason of the variable rest time ?

33

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
My biceps are a stronger body part of mine. they respond best to just pumping the shit out of them. I pretty much just alternate between doing reverse curls, incline curls, and straight bar curls. Maybe some band curls if I’m feeling frisky. I usually just do 3-6 sets of 15-40 reps supersetted with triceps 3x a week.

best advice I can give someone is make sure to do an exercise with your elbows ‘in front’ of you, one with your elbows ‘behind’ you with a stretch, and one with your hand neutral or pronated. Also, unless it’s the last one, concentrate on trying to get your pinky to touch your front delt. It helps me for some reason. [/quote]

My SI joint has been bothering me so I won’t be able to spend the bulk of my gym time squatting and pulling for at least a few more weeks. I’ll try training arms like you do, thanks for the tip on how you choose your exercises.

34

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]SwissIron wrote:
Hi,

I am training biceps et this way for 4 months:

4 sets heavy barbell curl (5 reps), rest = 2’
3 sets middle heavy spider curl (10-12 reps), rest = 1’30’’
3 sets light incline hammer curl (15 reps), rest = 1’

Each workout i had add weight or rep on each exercise, meaning progression But�??�??�??�??�?�¢?�??�??�??�??�?�¦ No difference with de measurement !! why ?

What’s your advise on biceps training ? should i do more volume (more sets) ? should i continue with this program because i progress ?[/quote]

Couple of things:

Why are you resting 1-2 min between sets? Drop that to 15-30 sec, maybe go 45 as fatigue really hits.

You haven’t switched up rep ranges, total volume, or exercises for 4 months now? I’d cycle exercises once every 2-4 weeks and change reps and/or volume weekly. I’m not just talking about adding a rep here and there and adding 5lbs here and there.

Can you post a vid of yourself next time you train each of these lifts? I can only speculate, but I’m assuming you’re probably lifting too much weight and not getting enough TUT out of each set.

As others have mentioned, gaining weight could really help forward your cause; however, it’s by no means necessary if you’re not currently lean and aren’t comfortable with adding weight. You just have to be spot on with the diet, so as to be in re-comp mode. [/quote]

Yeah i think i have to cycle my training. But in which way ? i find there is too many parameters you can change, like exercises, number of reps, number of sets, rest time, frequency, intensity technique, etc.

I would like to plan a training where i can know every weeks if i progress or not. i mean, if i change exercises sequence every 2 weeks, it’s not possible to tell if i progress or not; the CNS adapt but biceps don’t have time to (grow). if i change rest time i cannot compare the training from my previous…

[/quote]

I wouldn’t think of biceps curls or any iso movement for that matter in the same way as a compound movement. “Progressing” every week isn’t always as simple as more reps or more weight. It’s a small muscle group, so that limits your ability to follow a strict linear progression like you would on bench press or squats.

Think of ways to draw out time under tension in sets. Try this on for size:

  1. rope hammer curls, double contraction (so go all the way up, contract hard, halfway down, back up, contract hard again…that’s one rep)
  2. EZ bar preacher curls: just focus on controlled reps and hard squeeze at top
  3. cable curls: 3 sec up, 3 sec down…yep, a full 3 sec each way

week 1: 3 sets of 8, 1 min rest
week 2: 4 sets of 8, 45 sec rest
week 3: 5 sets of 8, 30 sec rest
week 4: 2 sets of 8, 1 min rest[/quote]

it’s the number of sets for each exercises right ? so you do 15 sets on week 3 ?
what is the reason of the variable rest time ? [/quote]

That’s right. Variable rest time is to increase your training density each week 1-3. With those rest times you’ll be completing 24, 32, then 40 total reps in roughly the same amount of time. I would keep the weight the same each week. Then week 4 should be easy as hell and you can focus on nazi form.