It’s sort of a test badger, I’d be more that happy with a few pounds of muscle and better endurance for boxing, swimming and running.
Probably not. I had a friend who ran this. Didnt do anything for him either way.
Probably not but there are stories on this forum from guys doing a couple shots of Deca and ending up with ED for over a year.
Yes, so the point of a Test base is to keep your test levels high while simultaneously taking advantage of the var and/or winny.
Again, probably but you made no mention of it in your intro.
Generally the consensus is that all cycles are made up of just test or test plus something else with an additive effect.
Bottom line here is that 10-12 weeks of 500 mg of Test/week will do so much more for you than what you are hoping to get from this oral cycle.
you got all your information from an article that’s 17 years old. That’s your biggest issue. You shouldn’t be getting all your information from one source, and that source DEFINITELY shouldn’t be ancient. Basically, what you have here is 1 guy’s opinion from nearly 2 decades ago. You’ve already got, in this thread, more peoples opinions, right now. Why stick with the old literature?
i’m going to be patient with you though. I think I can answer everything you’re asking, specifically as it relates to a 2 week cycle.
First off, i agree with everything studhammer said above, so I won’t go line by line with those questions.
Back when the article you produced was written, a fellow named Bill Roberts was sort of a steroids guru on here and other forums. He was a big proponent of the 2 week cycles. But his suggestions essentially amounted to 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, and repeating that often. The entire purpose of these 2 week cycles was to avoid pct, because natural testosterone production should stay relatively intact during such short cycles. But he was also a proponent of short estered injectables during these 2 week cycles to go along with the orals. The 2 week cycles had to include sufficient amounts of steroids to make them worthwhile. Otherwise, the ‘troughs’ in between your cycles would outweigh the gains made while on cycle.
I believe the cycle you have proposed will be completely ineffective at best, and deleterious at worst. You likely won’t experience full testosterone production shutdown, but you’ll experience some. Studies have shown that oxandrolone can cut your T production in half very quickly, like in the first week, at the dose you’re suggesting. That’s a problem. And that’s why including exogenous testosterone (in the form of test prop) is recommended, to simultaneously keep test levels from tanking while on the orals. Theoretically, you would come off these drugs after 2 weeks, you would have made solid gains, the next 2 weeks your body would be recovering, and then you’d run a similar cycle again, with the expectation that your body had sufficiently recovered by that point.
I don’t believe in this protocol. It sounds great in theory, but I think Roberts underestimated the degree of shutdown a person is likely to experience once a user is done running the cycles.
I can also tell you that running 2 weeks on the orals you are suggesting, then 4 weeks of pct, is pretty insane. That’s absolutely a prescription for failure. If you’re set on doing 2 week cycles, at least do it right. What you’re proposing is essentially an amalgamation of the 2 week protocol and a ‘standard’ 8-12 week cycle that should be finished with a proper pct.
Final note: 100mg tamoxifen is a RIDICULOUS pct dose. People were really stupid with pct protocols 20 years ago. They were under the impression that more was better, and they kept throwing larger and larger doses of clomid and tamox into their pcts, hoping it would result in better recovery. It turns out the opposite is true.
When running a pct for a pretty basic cycle, you shouldn’t go above 40mg tamox, and that dose should be tapered after the first week.
Awesome information. Especially from a “dumb troll” . Thanks Flip
That other thread still has me laughing.
Thanks a lot flip that was awesome.
I’m going on holiday in december and have been wanting to give this a shot for a while. Thought I should go for the mildest and shortest possible route. I googled a bit after I read what so said and you seem spot on, I likely wouldn’t get much of a benefit because of lower prod and especially if I avoid injectables.
It seems I’ll have to postpone my first cycle until next year and do it right(I figured I could afford mistakes because it’s seemed so mild).
I’d rather not inject anything for my first time around, any recommendations? Is that possible?
Lol I’m sure it seems silly, cowardly even, but I’m just not comfortable with injecting myself like that just yet despite not being scared of needles.
To be honest, in order to get over your fear of needles or pinning yourself, you just need to do it.
You want to use big boy gear but not put on your big boy pants. Youtube search all the shot videos. Learn the measurements, doses and just do it.
The issue I have with 2 wks on 2 wks off is that if one isn’t advanced or competing, you’re on for essentially 6 out of every 12 months. Secondly, you spend half of each year feeling like shit. Thirdly, the doses one has to use to make this worthwhile are fairly high, I think overall a structured blast is a better idea. What’s you’re opinion on it?
As to oxandrolone, yea it only takes about a week for it to cut testosterone production in half, and that’s at 15mgs/day! All the people who say anavar isn’t suppressive, thats BS, at tiny doses (5mg/day) it isn’t too supressive, but for bodybuilding 5mgs/day isn’t gonna do jack shit lol, and from looking at the bloods of some guys who run var only and end up with a TT of sub 90ng/dl, it’s clear var is suppressive of the HPTA, and why would it not be lol, it’s an anabolic steroid. The only AAS I know of that doesn’t exhibit significant suppression is mesterolone, and that’s probably because the oral bioavailability is so low (around 3 percent) so for every 100mg you take you’re only getting about 3mgs, and even then at higher doses it exhibits suppression.
I can empathize with wanting to do an oral-only cycle first. It’s what I did. I ran 5 or 6 weeks of epistane before my first cycle, but I did have the intention of moving to injectables in the long run. I did that 6 months later.
I think that doing an oral-only cycle with the idea that you will never make the move to injectables is silly. And I wouldn’t recommend that. But there’s no shame in being scared of needles if you’ don’t have experience with them. I was nervous as hell my first time using them.
Ditto. I was nervous too but to be honest, once I did it, the rush was addictive. Now I just flop down on the bed and the wife pins me. Its all very normal now.
Oh of course if I continue using, I’d have to move to injectables for sure. lol I do like my liver and even drink now and then.
For 5-6 weeks I shouldn’t stack anything right?
What do you think? Stanozolol, Epistane, oxandrolone, or some other one?
The goal is to put on some lean, dry muscle while getting rid of some or maintaining fat; from what I read winstrol seems right up my alley.
so I’ll address this first. Any water retention from a steroid cycle is temporary. In my opinion, the only reason to use steroids that don’t cause fluid retention are if you’re actually prepping for a bodybuilding show and you’re choosing drugs that won’t make you retain water on stage, or if you’re trying to make weight for a weight class based sport.
The goal of your steroid cycle should be to put on as much muscle, preferably without increasing fat mass, as possible, in a short period of time. The more muscle you put on, the better off you’ll be after you come off the drugs. To do this, temporary fluid retention is actually ideal. Fluid retention helps you to lift heavier weights in training, which will lead to greater gains while on the cycle. It will also keep your joints healthier.
That’s why I recommend dbol as the best choice for a short, oral-only cycle. Your other choices are fine, they’ll work. I just don’t think they’ll work as well. Dbol is relatively inexpensive, it’s rarely faked or underdosed, and it’s powerful enough to do what you want. Epistane was solid in my first cycle, but the reason I chose that was because it was legal at the time. Now it’s not. So if I were running a first cycle now, I’d choose dbol.