T Nation

Advice about HPTA Restart

If your Clomid was actually pharm grade, then the top end of your HPTA is fucked and you’re in for a long recovery.

Did you use HCG during your blast and cruise?

that’s really interesting about your results from clomid.

Aren’t you on TRT? How come you decided to use the clomid?

EDIT: durrr, you clearly said in your post you were on TRT. But still, why’d you try the clomid?

I wanted to test if Clomid will work on TRT dose of test. It didn’t. So I said fuck it, I have all this Clomid in my system now, let me stop TRT injections for 6 weeks to see what happens. Those are the labs surprisingly after a prolonged shut down.

My point is, HPTA is not as brittle as one may assume. If I had to put money on it, I’d say OP just has fake Clomid.

That’s really interesting. Clomid gets a bad rap but it does some pretty interesting shit.

I think there’s just too much genetic variation to say one way or the other. We get poor bastards on here shut down for months after prohormone use, and there’s dudes I know who just inject whatever they can get their hands on, no AI, no PCT, and they recover fine.

The more PCTs I do, the more I think about shit like this

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Pharm clomid is on the way. Ordered that when I got my bloods back and saw the lh was still low and assumed the stuff I had was bunk.

And I did not use hcg while on cycle. I freely admit I’m an idiot for that, but got some bad advice from a couple guys at the gym about it being unnecessary amd wouldnt help.

Thanks for all the help guys. I ordered some hmg, hcg and pharm clomid so I’ll start as soon as it’s all in.

Same old shit with bro-science clomid doses.

See the HPTA restart link found here: About the T Replacement Category

And more links: About the Pharma category

same old shit that’s been proven to work a million times

It is still not the right way to do things. You criteria of success is that no one died. There are restart failures and there are good reasons to suspect the methods.

uh, no, my criteria of success is that it’s frequently used successfully

Yogi, KSman has a solid point in his argument. Maybe the way he’s putting it is problem for you but the thing is PCT practices like usage of multiple SERM’s, taking large doses of SERM etc are really the examples of bullshit broscience. Low dose SERM’s are actually the way to go and Igs’s recovery thread is a case in point. And I believe that taking big doses of clomid is responsible for giving it a bad rep, as well as cases of failed recovery and HPTA brittleness.

And this is, whether people are willing to admit it or not, the standard of advice given by anyone in these forums without a medical degree AND formal training in endocrinology. It’s the best we have to give. People intending to fuck with their hormones without medical supervision had better understand this.

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?

Yogi didn’t recommend taking multiple SERMS. Clomid at 50mg/day isn’t unreasonable for someone shutdown for so long without the use of HCG.

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Maybe he should have suggested using a SERM on cycle.

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Yeah I agree that 50mg/day dose is not very unreasonable, and it’s been used in a couple long term studies on clomid successfully. Cycobushmaster had also posted the links to them in his clomid whirl thread if I remember correctly, and also most of those studies used the 25 mg ed or 50 mg eod dose of clomid. Please correct me if I’m wrong, doesn’t the length of PCT more important when trying to restart after prolonged shutdown, and if it’s so doesn’t tapering down of SERM towards the end of PCT beneficial especially if starting it at the high end SERM dose.
Oh, and my comment wasn’t on Yogi’s recommendation, I love Yogi too. :blush:

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no offence taken, I have no problem debating this stuff.

But the fact is that the 50mg of clomid/daily has worked for a really long time, and so I will continue to recommend it.[quote=“jasper41, post:26, topic:216917”]
Low dose SERM’s are actually the way to go
[/quote]

Are we absolutely sure about this? We’ve seen some evidence to suggest it, but certainly not enough to make it a blanket suggestion

Honestly man, I don’t know. I do think tapering should be done although, in theory, the half-life of SERMS would make it redundant.

Yogi, it is also a fact that 25mg dose had also worked as well in long term set up.

Absolutely?.. No, not at all. But based on the evidence provided by a few studies, empirical evidence from some lab based threads in T Replacement forums and my own little experience with SERM’s, I am myself pretty sure about the efficacy of low dose SERM’s. I’m definitely not proposing some blanket suggestion, nor I’m qualified enough to do so, but it makes sense when we apply deductive reasoning to it.

A period of 4-6 weeks for PCT, even at a slightly higher dosing is just not long enough to do any permanent damage. A nice taper takes care of the drastic drop. Even if you don’t taper, as DT79 said, the half life of SERM will taper you out.

Now, if you are overdosing SERM for an extended time and keeping your LH/FSH above range constantly then yes. Some desensitization is probably bound to happen.

Best thing you can do is get bloodwork. If your LH is in proper range, arguing over 25mg vs 50mg is pointless.

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yeah mate, I totally understand your reasoning, and I’ve seen the studies that show low dose may be the way to go, but I’ve certainly not seen any evidence that the 50mg is harmful.

This. And in my mind - which others may not agree with - the fact that it has been the go-to dose for PCT for so long because it does work, means why fuck with it?

Another quick question while you are all in here, would GH help? I have read a few studies that show when it converts to IGF it helps protect and restore HPTA activity