And THIS is exactly the reason I posted here…very informative, thorough answers from you both. Very much appreciated!
Here’s the kicker…ready for it…HE DID NO PCT!!! I just found this out a couple days ago and about shit a brick when he told me. Of course I asked him if he had researched what he was taking or even knew what the hell it was BEFORE he took, it and he sheepishly told me he hadn’t. Insert freak out here.
Don’t ask me what the hell he was thinking because I truly can’t tell you, but he got more than an earful from me about it. He’s been taking the REAL shit for years now, so you’d think he would know better but I guess he slipped. He won’t ever be dabbling with PH or designer steroids again, that’s for sure.
My questions now: 1) Since 2 wks have elapsed since he stopped taking the Spawn, do any extra steps need to be taken before the SERM or will the Nolva at 20mg/day until he feels normal suffice? ( I will try to get him to use an AI in conjunction w/ the SERM as recommended).
- He was talking about starting a cycle of TEST in a week or so. Will this “fix” his issue, or should he do the PCT for the Spawn FIRST, go through his normalization period, THEN start the Test?
Honestly, frustrated is not even the word. You believe the designers should be shot…I’d be happy to do the dirty work for ya! Awful shit! Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to help me out and share a bit of your knowledge.
Ammusing that his girl has to lecture HIM on steroids and his broken dick, first time Ive heard that one actually.
Anyways, go ahead and jump into a standard PCT, and stretch it at a low dose as long as he needs to feel completely right again.
If he comes off and still feels funny, just go right back on at 20mg/day.
I dont necessarily recommend going on cycle when his system is rebounding. But it probably will not hurt anything assuming he uses an AI on cycle and a proper PCT.
I do however OFFICIALLY RECOMMEND taking at least 4 weeks to normalize his system and get everything ticking correctly first with a standard PCT.
Then if after a week or two after that he feels good to go, hes ready to cycle no problems.
Low dose AI + SERM will fix him very quickly I suspect.
And simply cycling real juice, with an AI, will certainly bring him back up to “speed” very rapidly. As the on cycle AI adequately dosed will control the estrogen rebound and the extra test and DHT will drown out the sex drive issues caused by the low test, low DHT, high estrogen, and progestin activity very easily.
It just might make it a little harder to recover from that cycle when he does come off, as he didn’t adequately recover from the spawn shutdown or the HPTA restart before jumping back on. And depending on how he reacts to the progestin crap, MIGHT cause more damage than it already has, impossible to say, just know its MORE risky.
If he insists on cycling (honestly what I would probably do as well), know that its technically the “wrong” choice, but if done with the AI, critical detail right there if you’ve noticed, he should be dandy as long as he keeps the cycle shorter, say 7-8 weeks.
Just frontload the test, dose the AI, get a little extra nolva for the PCT incase you need to stretch it a few more weeks, and away you go, more or less immediate fix with a slightly higher risk.
The moral of this story is, stay aware from progesterone, and progestin based designers, use the real stuff, and ALWAYS PCT with steroids or anabolics of any kind, even over the counter stuff.
I fundamentally disagree with this - i appreciate you did vaguely mention this is NOT the right decision, you still made it seem like it IS the best decision! It is contradicted and incorrect. It is not what he should do full stop - and whether you would do it (or i) is beside the point. He is a perfectly normal guy who wants to run a little juice very occasionally (recently had a year off - when did you last have a year off?).
He most definitely should get Caber (as i mentioned in my post that hasn’t shown up yet), he may want to run a SERM PCT, but i dont think it will be necessary as his estrogen is likely not elevated still, and his androgen level certainly isn’t either. A anti-prolactin will work wonders here IMO.
BUT even if he was to follow the SERM route (alongside Caber i must stress - as it was the progestin in the PH that has likely caused the issues), then he most definitely should not cycle until he has had a period of a few weeks POST PCT to recover and get ‘upto speed’.
Otherwise he is compounding one suppression with another - this (as you DID mention, though more in passing than as advice) is going to lead to a significantly harder time after the next cycle, and this poor guy and girl will not only be in the same position as now, but WORSE off… this is the advice that leads many to panic and hit the TRT button.
OP - please don’t allow him to run a Test cycle until he is fully recovered and happy. Suppression of the HPTA is a fact in Steroid use, and libido and drive and energy all drop after a cycle - so we run different drugs to help with the causes of the suppression (high Androgen level, Estrogen and Prolactin most commonly).
Test is also totally suppressive in any decent range for muscle and it is no more fun recovering from that than it is in the situation you are both in now.