T Nation

Adult Stem Cell Research

There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Nope. It actually has quite a few uses that cure/fix/whatever different ailments. It’s also heavily supported (monetary wise) by the Vatican.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state.

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state. [/quote]

Yes, and the Japanese needed to freeze people to see how people react to the extreme cold.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state. [/quote]

Yes, and the Japanese needed to freeze people to see how people react to the extreme cold.[/quote]

Oh noez!!!

Will there be documentaries where 80 year old stem cells will tell us with tears in their eyes how they were forced to prostitute themselves for the higher glory of the Tenno?

But I get what you are saying, embryonic stem cell research, the sacking of Nanking, anyone who does not see the similarities is just like Hitler.

Or some such.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state. [/quote]

Yes, and the Japanese needed to freeze people to see how people react to the extreme cold.[/quote]

Oh noez!!!

Will there be documentaries where 80 year old stem cells will tell us with tears in their eyes how they were forced to prostitute themselves for the higher glory of the Tenno?

But I get what you are saying, embryonic stem cell research, the sacking of Nanking, anyone who does not see the similarities is just like Hitler.

Or some such. [/quote]

No, I’m showing the principle in extreme. If you are ignoring the personhood of a human being, you are no longer treating human beings as ends, but as means. I could explain that or I could give an example of a time in history where human beings treated other human beings as means for a “greater end.” Most people get it, I’m not accusing you of being a Nazi because you like guns or you are a vegan. My analogy is sound as both Hitler and the Japanese gave propaganda to de-humanize a certain section of humanity to sub-human levels in order to commit crimes against humanity without penalty (though the Nuremberg trials had no mind to let that be using Natural Law). Of course that is not possible (humans being means or for their to be a greater end than humans…at least not in natural realm) since human beings value is infinite.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state. [/quote]

Yes, and the Japanese needed to freeze people to see how people react to the extreme cold.[/quote]

Oh noez!!!

Will there be documentaries where 80 year old stem cells will tell us with tears in their eyes how they were forced to prostitute themselves for the higher glory of the Tenno?

But I get what you are saying, embryonic stem cell research, the sacking of Nanking, anyone who does not see the similarities is just like Hitler.

Or some such. [/quote]

No, I’m showing the principle in extreme. If you are ignoring the personhood of a human being, you are no longer treating human beings as ends, but as means. I could explain that or I could give an example of a time in history where human beings treated other human beings as means for a “greater end.” Most people get it, I’m not accusing you of being a Nazi because you like guns or you are a vegan. My analogy is sound as both Hitler and the Japanese gave propaganda to de-humanize a certain section of humanity to sub-human levels in order to commit crimes against humanity without penalty (though the Nuremberg trials had no mind to let that be using Natural Law). Of course that is not possible (humans being means or for their to be a greater end than humans…at least not in natural realm) since human beings value is infinite.
[/quote]

Thanks for admitting that your views are extremist. Your analogy is not sound. All you are doing is what the nazis did in reverse. They de-humanized while you are claiming a clump of cells that has no more resemblance to a person than the bio-film on my teeth is a fully formed human being. Meanwhile real people who are self aware are suffering and dying from disease and injuries that could be cured by research on these cells.

Another very important point that should be remembered about the freezing experiments that the Nazi’s and Japanese performed is that although the experiments were unethical and not many doctors would perform such tests today, we don’t need to. Why? Because now we have the data from the nazis tests. Data which has been used to save lives.

The same thing will happen with stem cells. Once the research has been completed, it’s done, we don’t need to do it again. We move on and everyone can benefit.

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sifu wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
There have been many threads in regard to Embryonic stem cell research, and the issues people have with it. Are there any arguments/groups against adult stem cell research? The only thing I could find are the limitations scientist face with them, which is not really an argument against it.[/quote]

Adult stem cell research is the only one that has actually shown any real promise…[/quote]

It’s all important research though. For example one area we need to understand is the mechanisms where stem cells progress from embryonic to adult. A better understanding of that process allows a better understanding of the capabilities or limitations of adult stem cells. One of the feats it may allow is the ability to reset an adult cell back to an embryonic stem cell state. [/quote]

Yes, and the Japanese needed to freeze people to see how people react to the extreme cold.[/quote]

Oh noez!!!

Will there be documentaries where 80 year old stem cells will tell us with tears in their eyes how they were forced to prostitute themselves for the higher glory of the Tenno?

But I get what you are saying, embryonic stem cell research, the sacking of Nanking, anyone who does not see the similarities is just like Hitler.

Or some such. [/quote]

No, I’m showing the principle in extreme. If you are ignoring the personhood of a human being, you are no longer treating human beings as ends, but as means. I could explain that or I could give an example of a time in history where human beings treated other human beings as means for a “greater end.” Most people get it, I’m not accusing you of being a Nazi because you like guns or you are a vegan. My analogy is sound as both Hitler and the Japanese gave propaganda to de-humanize a certain section of humanity to sub-human levels in order to commit crimes against humanity without penalty (though the Nuremberg trials had no mind to let that be using Natural Law). Of course that is not possible (humans being means or for their to be a greater end than humans…at least not in natural realm) since human beings value is infinite.
[/quote]

Thanks for admitting that your views are extremist.[/quote]

I said I am showing the principle in extreme, your principle not mine. And though it is extreme it is only because one does not recognize the great crime against humanity that is embryonic stem cell research.

Thanks for committing reductionism in order to ridicule my argument instead of actually putting up counter points, very telling of your mental fortitude that you have to resort to such base methods. I said I am showing the principle in extreme

I never said it is a fully formed human being. The first time that was said in this thread…was by you. I said it is a human being, and I said all human beings are infinitely valuable and not to be treated as means, but as ends in themselves. This can only be accounted as a lack of reading comprehension, lack of care, or your unacknowledged bias and prejudice in this situation instead of looking at the situation from disinterested point of view.

So, you’re saying because human beings that are not fully developed yet are not human beings (and do not resemble actual human beings) we can use them for research? Ah, yes. So, you have no problem with doing research on infant human beings then since they are not fully developed yet, and do not resemble actual human beings (I have no clue what that last part means because I don’t know how we tell what looks like a human being and what does not).

Oh, so those tests are okay? So the tests that are also unethical are okay because one day we won’t need to do them anymore?

Yes, I’m sure my Jewish grandmother would just love this shit. It’s okay! You weren’t tortured in vain, we only use propaganda to imprison your family, experiment on your children, kill your husbands, but we have results and research! It’s okay! It’s okay, no need to complain about it being unethical.