Adrenal Fatigue, Thyroid, Hypogonadism, or a Mixture?

I’ve always thought I was a lazy guy. Never big on going out, mellow, and pretty easygoing.
Never had morning wood, libido is almost nonexistent, but in my mind that shit was normal. I also suffer from chronic tonsillitis. (might be relevant)

Fast forward a few years, I started feeling more and more depressed, I didn’t want to train anymore, started becoming a hermit (more than I used to be), but what really struck me as weird is that I started getting dandruff…weird, huh? Since I didn’t want to be put on SSRI’s, I started doing some research.

I came to the conclusion my T must be low. I got it tested, it came within range (high 300’s), but at 23 that is a shitty level. I also found out hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue and hypogonadism have very similar symptoms, which made me think twice about going to an endo and getting TRT.

I got the tests done, and here are the results:

Total T: 372 Range: 241 - 827 ng/dl

Free T: 245,8 Range: 131-640 pmol/l

Estradiol: 26,8 Range: Up to 39,8 pg/ml

Progesterone: 0,48 Range: Up to 1,06 ng/ml

HGH: 0,06 Range: Up to 1,0 ng/ml

TSH: 3,49 Range: 0,55 - 4,78 uUI/ml

FSH: 1,6 Range: 1,9 -18,9 (does this FSH level mean I’m sterile?)

LH: 4,22 Range: 1,75 - 9,62 mUI/ml

Free T3: 3,16 Range: 2,3 - 4,2 pg/ml

Free T4: 1,09 Range: 0,8 - 1,76 ng/dl

Negative for TgAB, TPO came back inconclusive (limit of 35, came at 35, but all cases of hashimoto’s I’ve seen are in the thousands, so I doubt I have it)

I also have high LDL (about 270, limit is 180)

Lab had terrible ranges for Cortisol (no lower limit), so I converted the measurements and took the lab ranges from another place, so consider this test a bonus (lol)

Cortisol AM saliva 2.9L ng/ml Range 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon 0.9L ng/ml Range 1.2-3.0
Cortisol Evening 0.6 n/ml Range 0.6-1.9
Cortisonl Night 0.5 ng/ml Range 0.4-1.0

I got some Thyroid-S from a Thai source, and I felt better while taking it (I got two weeks supply to see if source was legit, waiting for the whole bottle to arrive) I started supplementing with low-dose hydrocortisone after reading Bill Jeffries’ “Safe uses of Cortisol” (15mg per day, 20 gave me acne). Great book BTW.

Morning temp is a steady 96.98 (armpit), which signals hypothyroid, according to what I read, and, even though my morning saliva test for cortisol came out low, my temps are quite steady throught the day. I just took HC to see if it would make a difference, it didn’t (weening off as we speak) Currently I’m taking Vit-D 10k UI a day, omega 3’s, and that’s it.

So, my take is that I’m subclinical hypo (sapped motivation sucks!), and I want to start Iodoral to see if it all comes down to Iodine deficiency, since I prefer not being on Thyroid pills forever. I just want to hear you guys’ take on it, this forum has been really helpful during my research, and I want your opinion before I start my protocol.

If you guys also want to share your experiences with this sort of thing with me, that would also be great. The more info there is, the more we can help other people with the same problem in the future.

Cheers.

Please read the ‘thyroid basics sticky’ and ‘advice for new guys’

  • be open minded to finding causes, you are doing very well so far.

Please do oral body temps as per sticky.

Your history of using iodized salt is important.

When you get thyroid and cortisol resolved, your HPTA may improve.

When T, cortisol and thyroid are low, jacking up one can expose weaknesses elsewhere. Starting with thyroid is a good idea.

Chronic infection/inflammation can increase rT3 - adrenal fatigue. You can have normal fT3 and low temperatures [you].

Do you have pockets in your tonsils that release ‘stones’?

If so, you need surgery.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Please read the ‘thyroid basics sticky’ and ‘advice for new guys’

  • be open minded to finding causes, you are doing very well so far.

Please do oral body temps as per sticky.

Your history of using iodized salt is important.

When you get thyroid and cortisol resolved, your HPTA may improve.

When T, cortisol and thyroid are low, jacking up one can expose weaknesses elsewhere. Starting with thyroid is a good idea.

Chronic infection/inflammation can increase rT3 - adrenal fatigue. You can have normal fT3 and low temperatures [you].

Do you have pockets in your tonsils that release ‘stones’?

If so, you need surgery.[/quote]

Thanks a bunch for your answer! Well, I read the stickies, and I forgot to say I gained fat lately (butt and stomach), I don’t have much hair except for my legs and my head (can barely grow beard and chest is peach-skin like), went on a starvation diet years ago (but I still felt apathetic before that), and I train for powerlifting. (it’s becoming increasingly harder, and I cut back on it a little bit, so it’s not overtraining, at least)

With that out of the way, I do get those tonsil stones, will try to see if my healthcare covers the tonsillectomy (everything here in Brazil is 10x harder and 10x more expensive)

Also, my salt intake is low at best (a follower of the low-sodium craze, I’m afraid) . I do eat the occasional Dorito’s, but according to the sources that doesn’t help at all.

I’m gonna start the iodine with a bromide detox stack just in case. You think I should do the rT3 labs before starting the iodine? Maybe by increasing my T3 it can somehow screw the ratio up? I really can’t explain why I didn’t test for it earlier…

My only concern is that the iodine turns me hyperthyroid, but, as you said in the sticky, gotta pick our poison.

Cheers.

Sodium does not cause heart or artery disease. Once one has arterial disease, lowering blood volume provides some symptom relief. But for some reason, many now look at the association and believe that there is causality.

When docs put people with high blood pressure on low sodium, they almost always induce iodine deficiency and some degree of functional hypothyroidism.

You have been deceived.

Salty food does not mean that you are getting iodine. Most prepared foods do not use iodized salt. Its up to you and your cooking.

You have this: Towards the eradication of iodine-deficiency disorders in Brazil through a salt iodination programme - PMC
But you need to use the iodized salt.

KSman, when you started your Iodine replenishment, did you do 50mg in one go or built up slowly? I’m really excited about this, if my problem is as simple as iodine deficiency, that’ll be the greatest christmas gift ever.

So, thought I’d update!

I did the iodine protocol with the accompanying nutrients and salt loading. I indeed started feeling better (1 week iodoral at 50mg plus three days buildup with 25mg, all I got was an upset stomach, and I confirmed I don’t have Hashimoto’s), but still had some symptoms, so I continued with the Thyroid.

I’m slowly increasing my Armour dosage (for clarity’s sake, it’s another brand of natural thyroid!).

I got more labs done to see my progress. I’m feeling a little better both physically and mentally, but I’ve still got a way to go.

My testosterone increased by 43 ng/dl, and my FSH increased substantially too, but I noticed my estradiol is almost top of the range . Also my bloodcount is barely under range (anemic?). TSH, as expected, is almost zero, so product’s legit.

I’m thinking this means I won’t need to start TRT as I feared I would, BUT this estrogen thing worries me. Here are the labs:

E2- 38,4… Range: Up to 39,8

FSH- 1,95… Range: 1,6 - 8 mUI/ml

Blood cells- 4,36… Range: 4,5- 6,5

Hemoglobin- 13,2… Range: 13,5- 18

Hematocrit %- 39,9… Range: 40- 54

RDW %- 11… Range: 11,6- 14,8

Free T4- 1,00… Range:0,70- 1,80 ng/dl

Free Test- 8,28… Range: 3,4- 24,6 ng/dl

Total Test- 415,5… Range: 241- 827

TSH- 0,158… Range: 0,5- 5 ← LOL

Free T3- 3,59… Range: 2,3- 4,2 pg/ml

Total T3- 115… Range: 60- 182 ng/ dl

So, as you can see, pretty high E2, T3 is increasing steadily, and so is testosterone, apparently. I think I’m borderline anemic.

Do you think Nolvadex would help here to prevent E2 from binding, or just use arimidex to prevent the conversion of Test into E in the first place?

I’m happy my test and FSH are increasing, maybe I can avoid TRT. Also, thanks to KSman for helping me avoid Low T tunnel vision.

I personally think using low dose of arimidex would be a great move for u. I think it would certainly make u feel better and help possibly increase your T and FT even more. Without screwing things up. You’ve probably done yourself a great service not jumping into TRT.

You never needed TRT however and your thyroid was not the culprit (you didn’t have hypothyroidism)…depression and being socially awkward is multifaceted and most of the time the answer is not found in a pill/hormone. However you DO have hypogonadism. And at this time you have estrogen dominance and as the poster said above you may best be served by taking an AI (I like Aromasin the best). But good luck finding a doctor who will prescribe that to you! You’ll need to get it online, and my advice is to avoid research chemical places.

Well, my TSH was high and the thyroid pills increased my testosterone and well-being substantially, also my temperatures were low, so it does sound like sub-clinical hypothyroidism to me, I’m also borderline anemic, so it all ties together, is my take.

Also since I’m young I at least can experiment with my hormonal responses and get a faster recovery (in theory), and I enjoy talking about my results, mistakes and successes so someone with the same problems might find them useful in the future, like I investigated other similar cases!

In regards to the AI, you can get Arimidex/Aromasin without a prescription here in Brazil, but both are expensive. I got generic Anastrozole from a good pharmaceutical company at a pretty reasonable price, so that’s what I’m going to work with…also, I’m kind of wary of Aromasin, that stuff is stronger by an order of magnitude!

I’m going to use .25 mg every two days and check for too-low estrogen symptoms (aching joints, mood swings, etc). I’m also going to run T vs E2 tests after the first week to gauge my response to the Arimidex. Lower it if I’m over-responding, raising it if I’m under-responding.

I actually already have the pills in my hands as we speak. I’m going to split them in 4 and take the dose at night. Hopefully I’ll be able to get off Arimidex after I lose the extra bodyfat.

I’ll keep this thread updated with results.

[quote]Retinoid wrote:
You never needed TRT however and your thyroid was not the culprit (you didn’t have hypothyroidism)…depression and being socially awkward is multifaceted and most of the time the answer is not found in a pill/hormone. However you DO have hypogonadism. And at this time you have estrogen dominance and as the poster said above you may best be served by taking an AI (I like Aromasin the best). But good luck finding a doctor who will prescribe that to you! You’ll need to get it online, and my advice is to avoid research chemical places.[/quote]

[quote]Fingerstyle wrote:
Well, my TSH was high and the thyroid pills increased my testosterone and well-being substantially, also my temperatures were low, so it does sound like sub-clinical hypothyroidism to me, I’m also borderline anemic, so it all ties together, is my take.

[/quote]

Your TSH on the test you provided wasn’t high. And there is no solid evidence thyroid hormone is responsible for the increase in T (which would still, at your age would be considered terrible). If you feel a benefit from it then definitely keep taking it. Also I wouldn’t really say Aromasin is a lot stronger than Arimidex. I think, overall, it is more effective but compared to reducing E2 I wouldn’t say it is stronger however you probably would be able to find Arimidex more easily and it will be cheaper.

So, two weeks into Arimidex, 0.25 EOD (I’m dosing Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, Monday, etc), to a total of 1 mg per week.

Just received the test results back. So far:

Total T: 505 ng/dl (going up!)
E2: <11,8 pg/ml Range: 20-39,8 pg/ml

Sooooo, I’m surprised at this. I’ve been feeling much better, I’m actually starting to discover what libido is, and my lust for women is increasing exponentially. I’m not experiencing any low E2 side effects, my joints are fine (no pain or cracking, even after heavy squats and OHP), so I’m not sure what to make of this.

Maybe my body hasn’t had time to express the low E2 yet? I’m expecting to crash at any moment with those levels…so I got me some Nolvadex to do the KSman restart protocol (since my E2 will increase during the restart, and I’m waiting for my pipette to arrive to be able to dissolve the Arimidex in vodka), so I’m going to use that window to let my E2 roam crazy and hopefully get my testes firing up, will monitor LH/FSH in the meantime.

So what has changed so far? Well, my memory is better, I’m becoming more assertive, my famous wit from when I was a boy is coming back (how I missed it), libido is appearing, and my endurance, strength and fat loss are all climbing. Self-confidence is building slowly, and my outlook on life is becoming more positive (think of the birds singing happily from that Supertramp song, haha)

I’m actually feeling really accelerated, I upped my Armour dose two weeks ago, so the T3 levels must be starting to register in my body.

What else? I find I don’t need coffee anymore to be able to function, I’m having an easier time waking up even after getting hammered (Carnival, I almost never drink), and sleep seems to rest me more, does that make sense?

So, I’m going to start the Nolva HPTA restart, 20mg daily for 3 weeks. As a matter of fact, I had already bought the Nolva predicting this, and just swallowed my first pill. It was…denser than I thought it would. Heavier. Weirdly, that was reassuring to me, in a way I can’t explain.

After writing this post, my shoulder and elbow feel funny. I think that it’s self-suggestion after seeing the range of E2 I’m in, but I can’t be sure of that.
I didn’t think I’d be an AI over-responder, but sure looks like it, what is you guys’ take?

Will report back with LH/FSH results, hopefully. I hope this log helps someone in my situation in the future!

Well, third day on Tamoxifen 20 mg, and I crashed HARD.
I’m feeling really crappy, the flu-symptoms I was expecting turned into a full-blown sore-throat, mucus-dripping flu, my head has been hurting all day, and I’m dizzy.

I’m thinking perhaps it’s really a flu, because when I lied down and closed my burning eyes it felt much better. I’ve been getting a metallic cough also (not too bad), and dry-ish eyes too.

Gonna get some bloods to gauge progress soon. You guys think I should reduce the arimidex a little or keep it the same since my E2 will go up from the tamox?

Keep us updated w/ your progress. Enjoyable to read.

That is really weird that your T barely budged yet your estrogen crashed to below the range from an almost high level…something doesn’t make sense about that? Tamoxifen and Arimidex do not interact well together so you shouldn’t take these together. The AI that works best with Tamoxifen is Aromasin. Why are you even taking Tamoxifen if you were doing so well on Arimidex? You should’ve just lowered the dose.

I was thinking the same thing Retinoid when I was reading the post from 3-6-14 and Finger you said you were expecting to crash at any moment with those levels. I was like why not reduce your dose so you don’t crash so bad, the whole idea is to try and find a sweet spot. At least it seems some of your numbers are going in the right direction. Good luck

I’m gonna take my last Arimidex dose today, and start with a lower dose in 5-6 days, to get my E2 to normal again.

I’m planning to complete a week of Nolva and then run tests of FSH and LH. I’m just doing this to see if I’m primary or secondary, think of it like a scientific experiment!

You guys are right, I’m going to stick to what was working. My graduated drop counter should be arriving in a couple days (that crap is hard to get in Brazil, had to buy it from a manicure accessories site, I also bought a glass pipette online just in case), and I don’t really trust compound pharmacies here. I don’t want to get bunk/ underdosed stuff.

What else, I have a dull pain on my knees, nothing too serious, my shoulder dislocation also bothers me a little more than usual (getting an MRI of it next week), and I’m also going to see if I can get my tonsils removed.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback. I did indeed make some irrational decisions on this, but I’ve been feeling moody lately, and now I sadly understand how women must feel. It sucks. I’m gonna put these last few days on Nolva to good use and try and think like a woman to find out how their mind works. Then back to Arimidex at a lower dose it is.

Edit: If I stopped Nolva after three 20mg doses cold-turkey, would my HPTA be supressed? I’m thinking of doing a 10/10/5/5 taper otherwise. Thoughts welcome.

So, I’m back!

So, I tapered off the Nolvadex and ended my one week half-assed restart.
I went to my endo to get him to sign my tests so my HMO will pay half of them, and he recommended I stopped my thyroid meds (he freaked out when I told him they were being sent from Thailand, hehe)and the Arimidex. He didn’t even look at the labs I took with me, and told me I had gynecomastia and I needed surgery.

I told him it was very likely some fat deposits, and he acknowledged an ultrasound might be in order before going under the knife. Didn’t even suggest Raloxifen. He’s a prick.

Anyway, I’m getting my tonsils cut out in a week (I’ll live on icecream and soup, yay! Liquefying beef is out of the question, I asked), and all my labs came OK. I supplemented some folic acid and iron because my hematocrits were low. I hope that getting my chronic infections taken care of will bump up my hormones and immune system.

Surprisingly, my FSH and LH increased substantially (LH was top of range) after one week of Nolva.

Also, one month later, my testosterone is up to 613 ng/dl (I think it’s due to the fact I bumped up my thyroid meds, not the Nolva), and E2 is up from zero to 19,4 pg/ml. I dissolved some Arimidex pills in vodka (messy as hell) concentration 1 mg/ml, with 28 drops in 1 ml. I couldn’t get my graduated drop counter, and the pipette was wrecked by the mail boys, so I had to use a syringe to measure it. Very messy indeed.

I’m now on 4 drops EOD, which is roughly .5 mg per week. Being an over-responder to Anastrozole is actually sort of cool, since these drugs are expensive. I’m not yet sure if these are optimal E2 levels for me, I’ll have to wait and see. It’s only been one week since I changed the dosage, so my levels might fluctuate a bit more.

I’ve started taking some methyl B12 sublingually to raise hematocrits permanently, and I’m gonna take some zinc for my skin, it’s getting a bit oilier than before. Also some B5, I had to get the powder on ebay since you need a prescription to buy it here. How fucked is it I can get ancilliaries but not fucking B5?

I also had a glicemic tolerance test done, and let me tell you, it was terrible. They took three blood samples, and I had to drink this awful concoction that was sweeter than coating gingerman’s dick in sugar, and wait in a room full of bitching pregnant women (only one of them was bitchy, but she infected all of us) for two freaking hours. TWO FREAKING HOURS. I thought I was going to lose my mind. Good news is I’m not diabetic. Bad news is my veins look like a heroin addicts’. I also had estrone tested. Why? Cheap bloodtests, that’s why.

All in all, I think things are working. I have the drive to work out again, I’m getting hornier and hornier, and I’m once again hungry for challenges. I’m starting to feel like a man again. Also my bodyfat is going down, and my teared labrum is bothering me a bit again. Is that a good sign? Maybe. You need pain to remind you you are alive, sometimes. I know I did.

I’m having general anesthesia for my surgery, I hope I don’t die, but if I do, I hope somebody finds some amusement or maybe some useful info in my ramblings.

I’ll report back in a week, hopefully!

How much Armor thyroid meds are you taking? How many mg’s? How long have you been on it?

I’m interested in your case because I am always tired, have cold hands and feet, never have a body temp > 97.2 and have low normal T levels. So my tiredness could be T level related or thyroid related. IDK

Doctors always tell me my thyroid levels are “in normal range”. Therefore
“I shouldn’t feel tired. Now fuck off and go bother someone else”. Fucking doctors.

[quote]Jonny-Edge wrote:
How much Armor thyroid meds are you taking? How many mg’s? How long have you been on it?

I’m interested in your case because I am always tired, have cold hands and feet, never have a body temp > 97.2 and have low normal T levels. So my tiredness could be T level related or thyroid related. IDK

Doctors always tell me my thyroid levels are “in normal range”. Therefore
“I shouldn’t feel tired. Now fuck off and go bother someone else”. Fucking doctors. [/quote]

Low normal T? Be more specific, please! I’m taking 3.5 grain, which amounts to about 230 mg, if my math is correct.

Do you feel most tired about 4-5 pm?

So, my estrogen bloods came back. E2 is 19,4 pg/ml, but estrone came back at 130,3, range being 10-60, while being on Arimidex.

How is this possible? I got the regular E2 test, maybe the result is wrong? The estrone exam was repeated and same result came back.

Could it be due to bodyfat? Suggestions welcome.