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Adjusting Load Based on Sticking Point and "Bounce"


#1

Hello everyone! I think I’ve found something interesting regarding percentages of 1RM.

I’ve noticed that the strength in back off sets is influenced by a) the position of sticking point and b) the amount of “bounce” you get.

For example if you have to do 5x3@80% on sumo Deadlift one day, it will be much harder than 5x3@80% on squats.

That’s because in case 1 (Sumo) generally the sticking point is at bottom, and we have no stretch reflex… But in case B generally the sticking point is at above parallel, and we have a stretch reflex … (individual sticking points may vary, im talking about mine as an example)

So 80% of 1RM is a different stimulus depending on the lift, therefore th actual percentage could be corrected.

Now my question is how much of a percentile should be added or substracted to meet the above criteria.

In order of difficulty my observations say that: (from harder to easier)

Sticking Point:
Bottom ->Mid Range ->Top

Amount of stretch reflex

Deadstop -> Paused -> Bounced

Thank you for reading all that, I hope this will help us!


#2

How can one weight be the correct weight at the top, and the bottom? It can’t!

This is why they invented Accommodating Resistance, and the box squat.

You should check out some old Louie Simmons articles. His whole system is built on these concepts.


#3

Im talking about the actual force needed to overcome thw sticking point, not the bar weight


#4

Remove 15% at the bottom, make “even” at the sticking point, and add 15% at the top.


#5

I’m not talking about accomodating resistance…


#6

Try lifting the bar from pins in the power rack.

Set them at Top, Bottom, or the sticking point.

See how much weight you can lift from each position.

Compare those numbers?


#7

Are you talking about using bands and chains to overload the ‘easier’ position of a squat?

I love bottoms up squats!


#8

No…if your Squat max is e.g. 100kg and your sticking point is above parallel, you don’t need 100kg of force to lift it because you’ll have momentum due to the stretch reflex AND the distance between depth and sticking point witch gives you extra momentum… Compare that to a Squat from pins just below the sticking point where the bar speed is non existant…


#9

This is why we don’t “Dive Bomb” squats and bounce out of the hole in training.

You actually do less, and get weaker.


#10

Then it isn’t really a sticking point then is it?

What is your rationale here, exactly? That we should use stretch reflex and bar speed to overcome a sticking point?


#11

I’m talking about ONE person doing various lifts with the same parameters, which produce different stimulus as each lift is allowing or not momentum to build up AT the sticking point.

Actually some people can grind very efficiently so they have almost zero bar speed at their sticking point. But I’m talking about submaximal loads where one won’t fail or grind it. If that happens, you’ll have momentum built up attacking the sticking point, that is depending on the lift. For example that isn’t happening on sumo Deadlift because you’re starting from a Deadstop and you have to get it moving off of a Deadstop… Witch is harder. Therefore when someone writes 80% for 5x3 (example) , the proper thing would be to lower slightly the percentage on the sumo, and up it on the Squat

Another example with the bench press:
Paused vs regular (no bouncing off the sternum)
Each pause fatigues you a bit more than not pausing so we could account for it


#12

Oh. Ok. I think we may just have different understandings of the same words and training methodologies then.

Sorry for the confusion.


#13

First off…

Second, why would you lower it for deadlifts and raise it for squats? Some people can do multiple reps with 80%, some can do fewer. It all comes down to personal bias. That is the problem with percentages entirely. Some people will have an easy time doing singles, doubles, and triples, while others will have an easier time with eights and up. I really see no reason for this post at all and it seems pretty pointless.


#14

I’m also curious as to how your squat actually looks. Also, by dipping your hips slightly or “bouncing” essentially using your hamstrings and glutes, you can create something very similar to a stretch reflex for your pulls while building a lot more tension in the lats and upper back.