I read here before that some of us need to adjust (increase) our arimidex dosage after 6-12 months. How common is this and why does this happen? Also, do you have to adjust again in the future? I plan to get some bloodwork done this week to see where my levels are before making any changes.
Thanks.
To answer my own question, I guess you do. I received some of my bloodwork results yesterday. They reflect the following protocol:
1 ml injection of 200mg/ml cypionate once a week
1/2 mg of arimidex ED
500iu injection of HCG EOD
My latest bloodwork was taken four days after my weekly testosterone injection:
Serum Test: 1496 ng/dl (200 - 1000 ng/dl)
Free Test: ? pg/ml (19 - 26 pg/ml), I will get these results later in the week. However, I’m typically above range. Not that it matters with the E2 level noted below.
Serum Estrogen: 4 ng/dl (.5 - 5.0 ng/dl) I believe this translates to 40 pg/ml.
I had the bloodwork done because I was experiencing the following symptoms:
Water retainage
No libido
Tired while running
Anxiety
No morning wood - for two weeks
Balls ached and sack felt tight
Two days before the blood-draw, I took 1mg of arimidex each day, to relieve the anxiety. Therefore, the E2 was probably higher on my old routine. I should note that the old routine was working for some time. However, my body adjusted and started making more E2.
I’ve been taking 1mg of arimidex ED for the last 10 days and am now in the sweet spot. However, 7mgs a week? Is that healthy?
I’m relatively new to HRT, and still find it amazing that hormones have that much influence on my quality of life. Also, I’m tired of the periodic bouts with anxiety and depression, especially if I can take steps to prevent it. As you guys have noted, it’s all about E2 management. Therefore, I’m considering a new HRT protocol that will lessen the conversion of T to E.
Proposed new protocol:
1/2 ml injection of 200mg/ml cypionate every 3.5 days. I made the suggestion to my urologist. He supports this move.
1/2 mg of arimidex ED ? Honestly, I do not know what the dosage should be. The same? Less?
500iu injection of HCG EOD - I would like to move to 250iu EOD. However, my urologist is a fertility specialist and his research indicates 500iu is the best for semen quality. My personal results support his research.
Any thoughts or words of encouragement?
Don’t forget that biology isn’t engineering and everyone is different.
As for thoughts…
You’re obviously one of the people who have real problems with weekly injections. This is not an uncommon response.
Don’t get hung up on the “weekly” dosage thing. “…every 3.5 days” is kinda silly. Shoot EOD and be done with it. Adjust as necessary. You’re already doing the hCG EOD so it makes sense to do your T at the same time.
As for your arimidex dosage, I’ve read studies where guys were taking 1 mg every day with no harmful effects, so I wouldn’t worry too much about that sort of dose. As long as your E levels don’t drop too low, then you’re ok. It isn’t so much about how much you’re taking as it is about what effect it is having on your E levels. One would assume that at some point ultra high doses of arimidex would become toxic, but in the real world the problem with too much arimidex is that it can drive E down to unhealthful levels.
Your body is always changing. It is adapting, it is aging, it is doing what biological systems do… they fluctuate. Don’t get discouraged. Just keep at it and you’ll do fine. For most of us, TRT never becomes a “set it and forget it” deal. Most of us are constantly tweaking our dosages.
Happydog,
Thanks for the comments. Regarding an EOD testosterone dosage…since EOD varies between two consecutive weeks (4 injections one week versus 3 injections the following week), do you take 2 weeks total dosage, 400ml, and divide it by 7 injections? That would be 58ml every other day in my case.
Any idea where my T levels will be once I start this routine?
Chushin,
Good question. My paperwork says “Serum Estrogen” and not estradoil (E2). I placed a call at Lab. Hopefully I’ll here something tomorrow. Are you suggesting that my E might be fine if it is E1 and E2 combined?
I’ll post all my current bloodwork numbers tomorrow.
I eat alot of fast food and drink diet coke everyday. No doubt this diet hinders the reduction of excess estrogen.
[quote]Eggman wrote:
Happydog,
Thanks for the comments. Regarding an EOD testosterone dosage…since EOD varies between two consecutive weeks (4 injections one week versus 3 injections the following week), do you take 2 weeks total dosage, 400ml, and divide it by 7 injections? That would be 58ml every other day in my case. [/quote]
Wrong. You’re getting confused by making it more complicated than it needs to be. Try thinking about it this way… right now you’re taking 1ml/week. Divide that by 7 and that would be your daily dose(.14ml) . Double that for EOD and you have .28 ml per dose EOD. Presto.
One would assume they would be near what you have now, but there are too many variables to know for sure. All you can do is try it and see.
As for the fast-food and diet coke thing… I don’t mean to offend you, but this infers that you are carrying excess fat. Fat PRODUCES estradiol and aromatase, neither of which are helping your hormone profile. Get your diet cleaned up and get rid of the excess fat and you’ll do a lot better with your hormones.
It’s a vicious cycle. Fat produces estrogen - estrogen promotes fat storage - a few years on that merry-go-round and your hormone profile is perfect… for a woman.
I have been on HRT for almost three years, and didn’t get adex until year two. I have had to raise my dosage up from 1mg/week to 2-1/2mg’s/week. Because the blood tests I had early on with adex, and I was using research chems that did work, I had to get my E2 down from 105 to something manageable.
Life sucked at 105 believe me. After front loading and waiting two weeks, my number came down to 47. Better, but still not good enough to feel normal using 1mg/week. I was on only T shots at that time and after I started on HCG, and even though I felt the benefits from the HCG,in a few months I started to feel awful again and got my E2 tested and found I was up to 69. I then decided to go to 2mg’s/week and after a few weeks started to feel better again. A few more months passed, and even though I felt “okay”, it wasn’t as good as before, again.
I moved up to 2-1/2mg’s/week and I feel pretty good all the time now. I haven’t had any recent b/w, but I believe 2-1/2mg’s/week is my happy spot at least for now, and when I get another blood test, I’ll see what it says.
Thanks everyone.
Happydog, no offense taken, but I’m actually fit. I run 12-15 miles per week and have 14-15% body fat. Not too bad. I would like to get down to 10-12% body fat. I can do better regarding what I eat.
Question, when you burn fat while exercising, do you release estrogen into the blood?
I’ve had weak morning wood the last two days. I may pull back on the arimidex slightly.
Eggman,
You blew it. Lab results should reflect a consistent dosing and the results then guide dosing changes if any. Your E2 lab result is meaningless. You need to manage things better.
If your E2 was 40, to get to a target E2=22, increase dose of Adex by 40/22. But you don’t know.
If you need to reduce your dose of T cyp, you will need to reduce adex as well.
It takes about a week for serum levels of adex to reach a steady state in response to a change of dosing. And it takes time for estrogen levels to reach a steady state after that, and then changes to mind and body evolve in response to a new E2 level.
Weekly injections create large T spikes, with resulting spikes in T–>E aromatization. As adex is competitive with T, your adex dose cannot ever be optimal. Inject more often and this will also reduce SHBG and increase FT % fraction.
Adex is competitive with T? I don’t understand.
I am concerned about taking 1mg of Adex ED.
I have decided to dose testosterone EOD to level the T spikes and resultant E. I’m tired of the estrogen sneak attack. However, I will miss the rush of T (or dopamine) I get the first few hours after an injection.
On another note, are there any concerns about DHEA-S being out of range?
DHEA-S: 5100ng/ml (range 1419 - 3867 for men 30-39)
Actually, my DHEA-S was way above range before I started HRT.
I do need to manage things better.
I guess the lesson learned here is that Serum T needs to be relatively consistent to make E consistent as well. From there, Adex can be dosed much more accurately to control E.
Currently, I’m “shotgunning” my body with Adex in an attempt to hit a moving target.
I’m also considering reducing the HCG to 250ui EOD
Eggman,
The DHEA is strange. Eugene Shippen claims that high levels of DHEA can start to block T at T receptors as does E2. Pregnenolone is made in the testes and is lost with HPTA shutdown. hCG recovers that production. 250iu hCG would make less. Pregnenolone is the feedstock for DHEA production in the adrenal glands.
It might be worth been mindful that the adrenals could be over active if other adrenal related concerns arise - ?panic attacks? Anybody else able to speak to this?
When you get things steadied out, then you will be able to feel the effects of changes you make when not getting shotgunned. You can then read your body.
The dopamine hit from injecting seems to wear off anyways. Things like that do not seem to be sustainable. Some get in trouble chasing that lost glory. Some of the nice things about [starting] TRT seem to be once in a life time events.
Arimidex does not block out aromatase, it interferes with T reacting with the aromatase enzyme. If there is more T bouncing around, you need more arimidex to Be able to statistically interfere with the higher potential T-aromatase hits. T and arimidex compete for the attention of the enzyme.
Arimidex does not react there, but T does. There is a drug that does bind to aromatase and disables it. Sounds wonderful, but the dosing and cost is high and the results not any better. If that drug was really good, it would be a mainline breast cancer drugs… which it is not.
Depression: If you have trouble sleeping, try 50mg trazodone at night, and expect to see a need to get to 100mg in short term. it is a $4.00 per month generic. It is dopergenic and can fix some depressions. No side effects if dosed properly. Improves libido in many cases. After that, one can add Wellbutrin.
Dostinex [.5mg/week] also improves dopamine in a better way as it can avoid the systemic [over] stimulant effect of Wellbutrin. But docs who will script that may be one in a million. All three are libido friendly.
Many guys who don’t seem to shine with TRT who are not typical profoundly sad depressed are really showing the effects of low dopamine. The dopergenic drugs seem to be neglected in favour of SSRIs that for most simply make quality of life worse.
Other complicating factors are diet, lack of trace minerals and vitamins, lack of health fats and often thyroid problems. I keep selling vitamin D. I have one report where the effects were very very positive. The world is slowly understanding the role of vitamin D. Does not have to be oil based as many do well on dry types and much research has been done with dry types.
However, the oil based vitamin D may have better bio-availability for some, perhaps profoundly better. 2000iu tiny oil based caps are now available.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Eggman,
The DHEA is strange. Eugene Shippen claims that high levels of DHEA can start to block T at T receptors as does E2. Pregnenolone is made in the testes and is lost with HPTA shutdown. hCG recovers that production. 250iu hCG would make less. Pregnenolone is the feedstock for DHEA production in the adrenal glands.
It might be worth been mindful that the adrenals could be over active if other adrenal related concerns arise - ?panic attacks? Anybody else able to speak to this?
When you get things steadied out, then you will be able to feel the effects of changes you make when not getting shotgunned. You can then read your body.
The dopamine hit from injecting seems to wear off anyways. Things like that do not seem to be sustainable. Some get in trouble chasing that lost glory. Some of the nice things about [starting] TRT seem to be once in a life time events.
Arimidex does not block out aromatase, it interferes with T reacting with the aromatase enzyme. If there is more T bouncing around, you need more arimidex to Be able to statistically interfere with the higher potential T-aromatase hits. T and arimidex compete for the attention of the enzyme.
Arimidex does not react there, but T does. There is a drug that does bind to aromatase and disables it. Sounds wonderful, but the dosing and cost is high and the results not any better. If that drug was really good, it would be a mainline breast cancer drugs… which it is not.
Depression: If you have trouble sleeping, try 50mg trazodone at night, and expect to see a need to get to 100mg in short term. it is a $4.00 per month generic. It is dopergenic and can fix some depressions. No side effects if dosed properly. Improves libido in many cases. After that, one can add Wellbutrin.
Dostinex [.5mg/week] also improves dopamine in a better way as it can avoid the systemic [over] stimulant effect of Wellbutrin. But docs who will script that may be one in a million. All three are libido friendly.
Many guys who don’t seem to shine with TRT who are not typical profoundly sad depressed are really showing the effects of low dopamine. The dopergenic drugs seem to be neglected in favour of SSRIs that for most simply make quality of life worse.
Other complicating factors are diet, lack of trace minerals and vitamins, lack of health fats and often thyroid problems. I keep selling vitamin D. I have one report where the effects were very very positive. The world is slowly understanding the role of vitamin D. Does not have to be oil based as many do well on dry types and much research has been done with dry types.
However, the oil based vitamin D may have better bio-availability for some, perhaps profoundly better. 2000iu tiny oil based caps are now available.[/quote]
Awesome post, thank YOU
Thanks KSman.
Latest bloodwork:
Serum Test: 1496 ng/dl (200-1000 ng/dl)
Free Test (calculated): 27 pg/ml (19-26 pg/ml)
Serum Estrogen: 4 ng/dl (.5-5.0 ng/dl)
SHBG: 36 nmol/L (10-55 nmol/L)
DHEA-S: 5100ng/ml (range 1419 - 3867 for men 30-39)
My doctor wants to look into the elevated DHEA-S further with additional bloodwork.
The numbers could indicate adrenal problems. He also noted that since my DHEA-S was elevated out of range before HRT, HCG is probably not the root cause.
On a different note, any opinions on DIM or resveratol?
Also, I just ran out of Vitamin C tablets, I’m considering Grape Seed Extract instead. I’ve read that it is a powerful anti-oxidant and efficient estrogen remover.
[quote]Wise Guy wrote:
Awesome post, thank YOU[/quote]
Fucking indeed. He da man.
[quote]KSman wrote:
The dopamine hit from injecting seems to wear off anyways. Things like that do not seem to be sustainable. Some get in trouble chasing that lost glory. Some of the nice things about [starting] TRT seem to be once in a life time events.
available.[/quote]
Great post KSman. What do you mean by this ^^ though?
[quote]Eggman wrote:
Thanks KSman.
Latest bloodwork:
Serum Test: 1496 ng/dl (200-1000 ng/dl)
Free Test (calculated): 27 pg/ml (19-26 pg/ml)
Serum Estrogen: 4 ng/dl (.5-5.0 ng/dl)
SHBG: 36 nmol/L (10-55 nmol/L)
DHEA-S: 5100ng/ml (range 1419 - 3867 for men 30-39)
My doctor wants to look into the elevated DHEA-S further with additional bloodwork.
The numbers could indicate adrenal problems. He also noted that since my DHEA-S was elevated out of range before HRT, HCG is probably not the root cause.
On a different note, any opinions on DIM or resveratol?
Also, I just ran out of Vitamin C tablets, I’m considering Grape Seed Extract instead. I’ve read that it is a powerful anti-oxidant and efficient estrogen remover.
[/quote]
Your FT at 27 is a nice number, but should be a lot higher. Go for E2=22 and SHBG should drop and FT should go up.
Here is the motive to consider adrenal problems:
“”"
As almost all DHEA is derived from the adrenal glands, blood measurements of DHEAS/DHEA are useful to detect excess adrenal activity as seen in adrenal cancer or hyperplasia, including certain forms of congenital adrenal hyperplasia. Women with polycystic ovary syndrome tend to have elevated levels of DHEAS.
“”"
“”"
Elevated levels of DHEAS may indicate an adrenocortical tumor, adrenal cancer, or adrenal hyperplasia. Increased levels of DHEAS are not diagnostic of a specific condition; they usually indicate the need for further testing to pinpoint the cause of the hormone imbalance.“”"
[quote]Eggman wrote:
Thanks KSman.
Latest bloodwork:
Serum Test: 1496 ng/dl (200-1000 ng/dl)
Free Test (calculated): 27 pg/ml (19-26 pg/ml)
Serum Estrogen: 4 ng/dl (.5-5.0 ng/dl)
SHBG: 36 nmol/L (10-55 nmol/L)
DHEA-S: 5100ng/ml (range 1419 - 3867 for men 30-39)
My doctor wants to look into the elevated DHEA-S further with additional bloodwork.
The numbers could indicate adrenal problems. He also noted that since my DHEA-S was elevated out of range before HRT, HCG is probably not the root cause.
On a different note, any opinions on DIM or resveratol?
Also, I just ran out of Vitamin C tablets, I’m considering Grape Seed Extract instead. I’ve read that it is a powerful anti-oxidant and efficient estrogen remover.
[/quote]
I wonder about the validity of your estrogen test.
Either way, with T levels that high your estrogen is probably high anyways.
I wouldn’t mess around with any OTC stuff. Get the real deal, arimidex