T Nation

Adex While on 4 Week Oral Cycle?

Planning on running a 4 week drol/winny cycle. Any need for adex and/or hcg during this cycle?

Anadrol and Winstrol don’t aromatize. Hence no need for an aromatase inhibitor or a estrogen receptor blocker (or more technically SERM) such as Nolvadex which I assume was what you were asking.

The concern during this cycle would be abnormally low estrogen, not excessive estrogen.

Adding in even a little Dianabol, e.g. 5 mg 3x/day, would avoid that problem.

what are the consequences of abnormally low estrogen? Why can’t I take the dbol all at once every day instead of 3 times a day?

With a short four week cycle the only consequence of concern, I believe, would be an inhibition of maximum potential gains from the cycle. Estrogen is a very powerful tool in the quest for more muscle.

You would want to take the Dbol at a low dose three times a day, because Dbol has a very short active life (6-8hrs). If you took it one time during the day, you would have a large increase in estrogen all at once and then for the rest of the day estrogen levels would be abnormally low. Taking the Dbol as Bill Roberts described will give you a steady dose of estrogen throughout the day, without any large spikes.

At least, this is what I would do in this situation. I can’t speak on why Bill commented as he did.

[quote]W.H.B. wrote:
With a short four week cycle the only consequence of concern, I believe, would be an inhibition of maximum potential gains from the cycle. Estrogen is a very powerful tool in the quest for more muscle.

You would want to take the Dbol at a low dose three times a day, because Dbol has a very short active life (6-8hrs). If you took it one time during the day, you would have a large increase in estrogen all at once and then for the rest of the day estrogen levels would be abnormally low.

Taking the Dbol as Bill Roberts described will give you a steady dose of estrogen throughout the day, without any large spikes.

At least, this is what I would do in this situation. I can’t speak on why Bill commented as he did.[/quote]

Gotcha. Any need to space out the drol and winny during the day?

[quote]W.H.B. wrote:
With a short four week cycle the only consequence of concern, I believe, would be an inhibition of maximum potential gains from the cycle. Estrogen is a very powerful tool in the quest for more muscle.

You would want to take the Dbol at a low dose three times a day, because Dbol has a very short active life (6-8hrs). If you took it one time during the day, you would have a large increase in estrogen all at once and then for the rest of the day estrogen levels would be abnormally low.

Taking the Dbol as Bill Roberts described will give you a steady dose of estrogen throughout the day, without any large spikes.

At least, this is what I would do in this situation. I can’t speak on why Bill commented as he did.[/quote]

Yes, that is it exactly.

Also, aside from gains, sex drive can go in the toilet when estrogen goes abnormally low. (Yes, some degree of estrogen is normal to normal function of the male brain – it’s not evil at moderate normal levels.)

On whether Anadrol or Winstrol should be spaced throughout the day also: yes. Dividing them three times a day is adequate but depending on planned daily dosage versus amount per tablet (if in tablet form) taking more times may work out more naturally.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
W.H.B. wrote:
With a short four week cycle the only consequence of concern, I believe, would be an inhibition of maximum potential gains from the cycle. Estrogen is a very powerful tool in the quest for more muscle.

You would want to take the Dbol at a low dose three times a day, because Dbol has a very short active life (6-8hrs). If you took it one time during the day, you would have a large increase in estrogen all at once and then for the rest of the day estrogen levels would be abnormally low.

Taking the Dbol as Bill Roberts described will give you a steady dose of estrogen throughout the day, without any large spikes.

At least, this is what I would do in this situation. I can’t speak on why Bill commented as he did.

Yes, that is it exactly.

Also, aside from gains, sex drive can go in the toilet when estrogen goes abnormally low. (Yes, some degree of estrogen is normal to normal function of the male brain – it’s not evil at moderate normal levels.)

On whether Anadrol or Winstrol should be spaced throughout the day also: yes. Dividing them three times a day is adequate but depending on planned daily dosage versus amount per tablet (if in tablet form) taking more times may work out more naturally.

[/quote]

Well, it sounds like increased estrogen levels shouldn’t be a concern on this type of cycle but I’ll keep some nolva on hand just in case. I’m not too concerned aboutr lowered sex drive, but my right hand might lose some strength.

I have done totally non-aromatizing cycles out of wanting to experience for myself what happened – not out of thinking it was a good idea in general,

But because it seemed an interesting theory that maybe someone might want to do it in the week or so leading up to a contest so I ought to know more about it before saying anything about it – and don’t recommend it. Normal moderate estrogen is a good thing.

Another way to fix it besides taking low dose Dianabol (for example) is to take HCG at a moderate dose, for example 100 or 125 IU every other day or 3 times per week.

Still another way is to inject testosterone at a low dose such as totalling 100 mg/week.

It really is better to avoid the total-non-aromatizing route involving doses and compounds that yield a high degree of suppression, as well-dosed Anadrol plus Winstrol will do.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Anadrol and Winstrol don’t aromatize. Hence no need for an aromatase inhibitor or a estrogen receptor blocker (or more technically SERM) such as Nolvadex which I assume was what you were asking.

The concern during this cycle would be abnormally low estrogen, not excessive estrogen.

Adding in even a little Dianabol, e.g. 5 mg 3x/day, would avoid that problem.[/quote]

How would this lower E2 below baseline or below 20pg/ml?

Does it make sense to be assuming that E2 would drop to harmful levels?

Are you saying why would this cycle make estrogen lower further than natural levels?

If so, i agree as my thoughts followed a similar path.

my wondering was with winny possibly having SHBG benefits - the testosterone that would be normally bound to the gobulin, is now free and available to the aromatase enzyme.
Potentially.

Brook

Using typical and effective amounts of Anadrol combined with same for Winstrol puts T production into the toilet, and since estrogen is produced from testosterone, also puts estrogen into the toilet.

I don’t know if the level should properly be called harmfully low. It’s not harmful in terms of causing any damage per se for weeks on end. It probably would be harmful in terms of damage if used for years on end – e.g. osteoporosis might well result.

It’s rather undesirable for the time period of a typical cycle rather than physically harmful per se.

It may well be psychologically harmful and harmful to gains though.

There’s just no reason to drop estrogen below the minimum of the normal level or as you say below 20 pg/mL.

Oh no, the SHBG thing again!

Unfortunately over the last 10 years at least I’ve beaten my head against the wall so many times to no lasting use on this subject – the weight of “the wrong stuff” out there is just too great and near-universal to, in practice, overcome – that the only thing I can bring myself to do regarding SHBG is to give a link:

lol! I am aware of your thoughts on it - and i apologise for bruising your head further!

hahaa!

Thanks for the link, i will attempt to re-educate myself :wink: