[quote]Anthony Roberts wrote:
Yes, proviron would work as well, however for simplicities sake I prefer masteron, for reasons said above.
Now the small amount of masteron you would need for a taper, and the fact that it is readilly available through most quality UG labs, means at least for myself price isn’t an issue.
Logically, wouldn’t an oral DHT derivative be FAR SUPERIOR? Explain why not, if not…
Wouldn’t proviron, winstrol, etc…be a better choice? I mean…if they aren’t, but still applying your reasoning on masteron…something doesn’t fit.
I have never tried the other dht steroids in a taper, however their properties are not the same as masteron and proviron, in for example their known binding afinity to SHBG, and their antiestrogen properties. That’s not to say that they won’t work, but I have not tested them personally nor do I know anyone who has in a taper.
Really? Which ones do not share the SHBG capabilities of Mast/Prov? In my research so far, they all do…that is to say 100% of them. Which don’t?
I believe they all do, off the top of my head. And wouldn’t orals typically be far superior to injectables, in this regard? I mean…shit…don’t basically all steroids lower SHBG, including testosteone?
Why even mention it as one of the reasons to include Masteron, since the other drug in your taper has the same property (lowers SHBG).
What’s the RBA of the various DHT derived steroids to SHBG (you logically would need to know it for all of them, to make the above statement that they all differ from masteron and proviron).
Anyways what class of antiestrogen these drugs are is irrelevant to the bottom line. The bottom line is, when you slowly taper, your body has time to adjust, and compensate. It does not matter what ‘class’ of anti estrogen you do use provided that you slowly taper off it in then end to avoid the rebound. This is just an alternative method to using an AI with testosterone.
How is the class irrelevant? Wouldn’t a type-I produce less rebound? Isn’t it basically impossible for a type-I to provide a real rebound effect?
I understand all of your rational, but even if your reasoning were to be granted, wouldn’t any dht derivative be at least as useful or maybe more useful for a taper than masteron? And preferentially an oral over Masteron? [/quote]
I wasn’t aware of the points you made. It is my understanding that masteron and proviron are known for their anti-estrogen properties - their ability to tie up the aromatase enzyme, and their SHBG affinity, however I see your reasoning.
Now of course my knowledge of winstrol is that there was an assumption that it quite possibly had anti-estrogen properties, but the proof of it was not confirmed and the mechanism of action unknown.
That is why I never even considered using this compound, and for that mater any of the compounds that aromatise, and any of the compounds that don’t support libido on a near equal, footing as testosterone.
Now my knowledge is that proviron and masteron are pretty much pure DHT in the body, which is the hormone that supports libido. That was a major factor in choosing these compounds.
I looked for compounds that were going to support libido, in ratio to their binding affinity to the AR.
I didn’t want to use a compound in a taper that would bind well to the AR - or even better than testosterone. A hormone such as that would cause suppression, but proportionately to to the steroids testosterone, proviron and masteron, not support libido equally.
Therefore, if the individual tapering was backing down his dose in relation to strength of libido, he may be unable to do so, as more testosteone would be needed to make up for the weekness of the other hormone in that area, which would result in continued suppression. That is why a compound like boldenone wasn’t even considered as it is a weak ‘testosterone’ like molecule and I was not going to even bother tapering off on that, as my objective was full recovery, not first ruling out compounds that may not work as well, or at all.
That is why I have contended also that you must wait for all non testosterone hormones to fully clear your body before begining a taper, as they will just interfere in the process.
Of course as I have said, after the taper is fully completed, that is the time to use nolvadex if needed for a further boost.
and don’t forget, I have stated a testosterone taper is also good using adex concurently, however, I do believe you could taper without an AI at all, as once hormone levels of testosterone fall below normal physiological levels, the body should begin to compensate, down regulate the ER, and begin producing testosterone to make up for the deficit. I do believe however the taper without arimidex would need to be more gradual to allow more time for all this to take place.
As for taking orals instead of injectables in a taper, sure it could be done, but the dosing would be more complicated, as such things as half lives, and absorption from the GI would have to be taken into account.
I personally prefer injectable, as at least I know - especially if the two drugs have the exact same ester attatched, exactly what is going into the body, and that the clearance times of the drugs will be simmilar. - Just easier in the long run, and as you know when helping others, the easier you make it to understand, the less explaining is needed and the more people are going to have success.