T Nation

Addressing Misconceptions of Christianity on PWI

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[/quote]

I knew you were pulling ideas from this video TT in particular is pulling directly from it. I would eat that atheist for lunch. [/quote]

If that’s the case, why don’t you call the show this Sunday?

I Would LOVE to hear you debate this guy. [/quote]

I would kill him, but I won’t be calling any show… I don’t care that much. Why don’t you debate me?

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Anyways Pat, lets see if you’re full of shit. The show airs between 4:30-5:30 Austin,Tx time on Sunday.

If you live in Georgia and in the same time zone as Atlanta that would be 5:30-6:30.

I would LOVE to hear one of the PWI theists go on there and talk.[/quote]

Why? You cannot defend your own points?

[quote]pat wrote:
I would eat that atheist for lunch. [/quote]

Why? Can’t back up your own claim?

512-472-2255 <— There’s the number.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]

The guy in the video spent 25 years as an evangelical and was on the cusp of entering seminary school until he realized he couldn’t fulfill 1st peter 3:15[/quote]

So? Evangelicals seldom study philosophy, that’s what you need to know. I don’t need any theology to beat an atheist. It’s simply not necessary. The only question on the table is the existence of God. That’s it. There is no need to go beyond that. Studying theology as an atheist is like studying evolution as a creationist. What’s the point if you don’t believe in the core tenent.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
512-472-2255 <— There’s the number.

[/quote]
For what? A good time?

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]

The guy in the video spent 25 years as an evangelical and was on the cusp of entering seminary school until he realized he couldn’t fulfill 1st peter 3:15[/quote]

So? Evangelicals seldom study philosophy, that’s what you need to know. I don’t need any theology to beat an atheist. It’s simply not necessary. The only question on the table is the existence of God. That’s it. There is no need to go beyond that. Studying theology as an atheist is like studying evolution as a creationist. What’s the point if you don’t believe in the core tenent.[/quote]

You’re wrong, he has.

Anyways you’ve already said I’m biblically illiterate. I was hoping to see you pitt yourself against someone who is clearly not. Anyways if you don’t want to call the show that’s fine.

Lets be honest here too. I’ve debated you several times in PWI over religion

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I would eat that atheist for lunch. [/quote]Yet here I sit on ignore for nothing more than quoting your own words back to you.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I would eat that atheist for lunch. [/quote]

Why? Can’t back up your own claim?[/quote]

Just because I can, doesn’t mean I will make ardent strides to match up wits. If it comes to an occasion where I would meet him in a proper forum I would be more than happy to. But I am not going to make any super strides to do so. Further, if it’s his radio show, all he has to do is cut me off or dump my call if I back him into a corner.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]

The guy in the video spent 25 years as an evangelical and was on the cusp of entering seminary school until he realized he couldn’t fulfill 1st peter 3:15[/quote]

So? Evangelicals seldom study philosophy, that’s what you need to know. I don’t need any theology to beat an atheist. It’s simply not necessary. The only question on the table is the existence of God. That’s it. There is no need to go beyond that. Studying theology as an atheist is like studying evolution as a creationist. What’s the point if you don’t believe in the core tenent.[/quote]

You’re wrong, he has.

Anyways you’ve already said I’m biblically illiterate. I was hoping to see you pitt yourself against someone who is clearly not. Anyways if you don’t want to call the show that’s fine.

Lets be honest here too. I’ve debated you several times in PWI over religion[/quote]

Never seriously. And I don’t know if that guy knows the bible or not. I didn’t see that displayed but that is irrelevant. I don’t need and wouldn’t use the bible in that discussion.

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]
I posted some of these clips on here since some people never seem to do their own reading and I was getting tired of the canards about what Christians believe that have been filling the board, anyways he usually doesn’t do this but does answer objections raised against Christianity on his spare time. In a debates he argues for the existence of God and the historicity of the Resurrection and was where I learned the Leibnizian cosmological argument from.

[quote]pat wrote:

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

This thread is about misconceptions in the Bible and this thread was started by a theist. OP a Christian brought it up to engage non believers on what he perceived to be misconceptions.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

This thread is about misconceptions in the Bible and this thread was started by a theist. OP a Christian brought it up to engage non believers on what he perceived to be misconceptions.
[/quote]

Correct this thread. But seriously, why the Bible if you don’t believe in God? That’s kind of mandatory for it to make any sense at all.
I gotta go run for a while though. Important things need to get done.

[quote]
Never seriously. And I don’t know if that guy knows the bible or not. I didn’t see that displayed but that is irrelevant. I don’t need and wouldn’t use the bible in that discussion.

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

Ironically, the atheists who do know the bible usually do not bring it up in these discussions.

On the other hand, i disagree with this :

[quote]
I don’t need any theology to beat an atheist. It’s simply not necessary. The only question on the table is the existence of God. That’s it. There is no need to go beyond that.[/quote]

I’m still waiting to read a flawless philosophical demonstration of the existence of God.
A first cause, maybe.
But a god ? The abrahamic one ?
You would definitely need to go “beyond that”.

Maybe it would interresting to take the other road from times to times.
Starting with theology.
Showing atheists that they actually have an unavowed, implicit theology (which they usually project on believers) and progress after that, self-contradiction after self-contradiction.

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]
Never seriously. And I don’t know if that guy knows the bible or not. I didn’t see that displayed but that is irrelevant. I don’t need and wouldn’t use the bible in that discussion.

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

Ironically, the atheists who do know the bible usually do not bring it up in these discussions.

On the other hand, i disagree with this :

Kamui, I would be more than honored to discuss this with you. I know I could expect mutual respect and solid arguments.
If you really do want to discuss this with me, I would be happy to. But would you want to do it in the scope of this thread, a new thread, PM’s or what ever? I would be arguing from the Leibnizian perspective, but I know you know the Cosmological form and the argument. But yes, I can do some dot connecting if you wish.

[quote]
Maybe it would interresting to take the other road from times to times.
Starting with theology.
Showing atheists that they actually have an unavowed, implicit theology (which they usually project on believers) and progress after that, self-contradiction after self-contradiction. [/quote]

Correct, but I know you know what you are talking about and I respect the fact that you didn’t have to engage in a total paradigm shift to make your atheism work. You are right when you said your atheism is much harder to crack because you don’t deny reality in reason. For you said, Necessary Being simply doesn’t have to be much more than a starting point (or an ending point). That doesn’t mean, necessarily that it does or is anything beyond that.

What I would be talking would be from the point of the uncaused-cause.

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]
I posted some of these clips on here since some people never seem to do their own reading and I was getting tired of the canards about what Christians believe that have been filling the board, anyways he usually doesn’t do this but does answer objections raised against Christianity on his spare time. In a debates he argues for the existence of God and the historicity of the Resurrection and was where I learned the Leibnizian cosmological argument from. [/quote]

Kool stuff. Which clip has the cosomology in it? I can’t watch stuff from work…It’s good to talk to you again Joab…

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

This thread is about misconceptions in the Bible and this thread was started by a theist. OP a Christian brought it up to engage non believers on what he perceived to be misconceptions.
[/quote]

Correct this thread. But seriously, why the Bible if you don’t believe in God? That’s kind of mandatory for it to make any sense at all.
I gotta go run for a while though. Important things need to get done.[/quote]

Why the Bible what?

Why we ask questions about your worldview?

Why we want to know how you compile your beliefs?

Why we want to discuss and debate topics related to this book?

For me it’s pretty simple. You guys form most of your opinions based on the fact this book is true and is indeed the word of god. You vote on legislation that align with your holy book that effects us all. If you kept your toys at home and didn’t force anyone else to play with them, no one would really care.

This book has a trickle down effect on the whole of society. Just look at this forum.

You guys keep sex education down, a proven indicator for fighting teen pregnancy and STDs based on this book

You guys prevent the legalization of gay marriage based on this book

You guys distort attitudes towards human sexuality in society based on this book.

So a better question is, why would you expect us not to care about what the Bible says?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

You atheists are the ones who always bring up the bible. What’s the point if you don’t believe in God. The bible is for theists.[/quote]

This thread is about misconceptions in the Bible and this thread was started by a theist. OP a Christian brought it up to engage non believers on what he perceived to be misconceptions.
[/quote]

Correct this thread. But seriously, why the Bible if you don’t believe in God? That’s kind of mandatory for it to make any sense at all.
I gotta go run for a while though. Important things need to get done.[/quote]

Why the Bible what?

Why we ask questions about your worldview?

Why we want to know how you compile your beliefs?

Why we want to discuss and debate topics related to this book?

For me it’s pretty simple. You guys form most of your opinions based on the fact this book is true and is indeed the word of god. You vote on legislation that align with your holy book that effects us all. If you kept your toys at home and didn’t force anyone else to play with them, no one would really care.

This book has a trickle down effect on the whole of society. Just look at this forum.

You guys keep sex education down, a proven indicator for fighting teen pregnancy and STDs based on this book

You guys prevent the legalization of gay marriage based on this book

You guys distort attitudes towards human sexuality in society based on this book.

So a better question is, why would you expect us not to care about what the Bible says? [/quote]

therajraj, you questions are directed at pat but if I may interject, many of the teachings and propagation of the Bible are not, in fact, Bible truths. Sadly, this has lead to some very passionate, mislead individuals. The Bible and its true teachings are very reasonable and beneficial to society as a whole, if they are applied.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

therajraj, you questions are directed at pat but if I may interject, many of the teachings and propagation of the Bible are not, in fact, Bible truths. Sadly, this has lead to some very passionate, mislead individuals. [/quote]

Does it really make a difference though? These people are claiming their source of morality is the Bible. Based on your interpretation you may see them as mislead, but that’s just your interpretation.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

The Bible and its true teachings are very reasonable and beneficial to society as a whole, if they are applied.
[/quote]

I would argue there are several things in the bible that are unreasonable and would harm society if applied.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Edit: he’s not an idiot, just doesn’t make very compelling points.

[/quote]
The Christian guy is an idiot because he’s trying to argue from the bible with an atheist. That’s like tossing the keys to your dog and have it drive you to the mall. Atheists are biblically illiterate. So there is no point. Deism and Theistic philosophy is the way you deal with them lay an argument and make them prove you wrong. [/quote]
I posted some of these clips on here since some people never seem to do their own reading and I was getting tired of the canards about what Christians believe that have been filling the board, anyways he usually doesn’t do this but does answer objections raised against Christianity on his spare time. In a debates he argues for the existence of God and the historicity of the Resurrection and was where I learned the Leibnizian cosmological argument from. [/quote]

Kool stuff. Which clip has the cosomology in it? I can’t watch stuff from work…It’s good to talk to you again Joab…[/quote]
I didn’t post it in the OP but here part 1 of a 5 part series on it, if you want to start a thread I would be more than willing to participate on my off time.