T Nation

Adding Winstrol to My Test E

Hi guys…After debating…and reading…IM going to add winsterol inject to my test enanthate.
Right now I only take 100 a week of test…Im thinking of going up to 200-300 a week(its from a dr.) should I just jump right up…or slowly ? and from my reading…its best to break this up as in 100 2x a week or 150 2 x a week ?

now with winsterol, Im thinking for starting at 50mg a day…is this to low ? I read 100 a day…100 EOD etc…

My dr put me on TEST but I learned how to use it the ‘right’ way here…so I thank you guys…and ask for help with this…any help ,tips would be great for using these 2…I am not looking to add anything elese I get test from dr…and winsterol from a friend…thanks again

Are your levels going to be checked anytime again in the near future by the doctor? As the added test is sure to cause issues there.

If not I would just bump to test itself up to 250mg 2x/wk and not bother with the winstrol.

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[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Are your levels going to be checked anytime again in the near future by the doctor? As the added test is sure to cause issues there.

If not I would just bump to test itself up to 250mg 2x/wk and not bother with the winstrol.[/quote]

hello sir…I always find your posts great.so thank you…my test levels will not be a prob in my sport nor from my dr…if you do not mind…can you give me your thoughts on why not to bother with winstrol ?is it just testing ? or more ? I will not be tested for it.in the future yes,but now.If you remember…

I am boxer…so I thought the winsterol would help me get back to where I was(do not plan on using it or anything again) I had surgery…promoter probs…etc…now ‘comming’ back just looking for a lil jump start.I thought maybe this…and from reading…(which is never the personal useage) I was kicking around anavar…any ideas would be great…and why you say just test…because I trust your opinon…so thank you again

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Winstrol will probably upset your lipid profile, unfavourably.

Bushy[/quote]

now thats something I did not find in my readings ?? even in a short cycle ?
and thank you for your input

Winstrol will also more than likely hurt like a biznatch!

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Winstrol will probably upset your lipid profile, unfavourably.

Bushy[/quote]

That’s an understandment.
Nothing is worst in my experience (I know that from personal results/blood tests, but I’m on it now, lol)

To answer another one of your questions: I guess I wouldn’t bother with it at first. For your goals I would start by getting my test up to around 300mg/week, I wouldn’t go much higher before I added something else as you seem performance minded over gains.

Anavar is actually quite a good aas for performance enhancement at 40mg/day, and will help with recovery and performance gains. Winstrol will too, and about equally, though it’s cheaper and much harder on your system.

An example of someone who does cagefighting professionally that I know quite well does for his cycling is:
300mg/week Testosteron
200mg/week Trenbolone
40mg/week Winstrol
All ran months out for a contest. At about 8 weeks out he switches to:
300mg/week Testosteron (maybe 200mg/week?)
150mg/week Masteron
40mg/week Anavar
and I believe he switches to creams and suspensions for the last 2-3 weeks.

The point of showing this cycle was to point out the lower doses used for someone focused on performance and recovery…and he is by no means a small guy, he looks like a old-style bodybuilder or a thick underwear model

[quote]TheBeat2 wrote:
To answer another one of your questions: I guess I wouldn’t bother with it at first. For your goals I would start by getting my test up to around 300mg/week, I wouldn’t go much higher before I added something else as you seem performance minded over gains.

Anavar is actually quite a good aas for performance enhancement at 40mg/day, and will help with recovery and performance gains. Winstrol will too, and about equally, though it’s cheaper and much harder on your system.

An example of someone who does cagefighting professionally that I know quite well does for his cycling is:
300mg/week Testosteron
200mg/week Trenbolone
40mg/week Winstrol
All ran months out for a contest. At about 8 weeks out he switches to:
300mg/week Testosteron (maybe 200mg/week?)
150mg/week Masteron
40mg/week Anavar
and I believe he switches to creams and suspensions for the last 2-3 weeks.

The point of showing this cycle was to point out the lower doses used for someone focused on performance and recovery…and he is by no means a small guy, he looks like a old-style bodybuilder or a thick underwear model

[/quote]

thank you for your reply…yes gains is not my goal…I guess some help with fat loss/getting lean is my #1 the only reason I say that is because after this…I will not take anythnig anymore…other then test which I do need ,from my dr.

So I think I will go with the anavar…
so anavar 40 a day
test about 300
right now I take 100 a week…do I just up to 3 ?
and isnt 1502x a week better then 300 at once ?
any speical time of day should I take the anavar…do I split the dose…? once again ,I thank you.

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
TheBeat2 wrote:
To answer another one of your questions: I guess I wouldn’t bother with it at first. For your goals I would start by getting my test up to around 300mg/week, I wouldn’t go much higher before I added something else as you seem performance minded over gains.

Anavar is actually quite a good aas for performance enhancement at 40mg/day, and will help with recovery and performance gains. Winstrol will too, and about equally, though it’s cheaper and much harder on your system.

An example of someone who does cagefighting professionally that I know quite well does for his cycling is:
300mg/week Testosteron
200mg/week Trenbolone
40mg/week Winstrol
All ran months out for a contest. At about 8 weeks out he switches to:
300mg/week Testosteron (maybe 200mg/week?)
150mg/week Masteron
40mg/week Anavar
and I believe he switches to creams and suspensions for the last 2-3 weeks.

The point of showing this cycle was to point out the lower doses used for someone focused on performance and recovery…and he is by no means a small guy, he looks like a old-style bodybuilder or a thick underwear model

thank you for your reply…yes gains is not my goal…I guess some help with fat loss/getting lean is my #1 the only reason I say that is because after this…I will not take anythnig anymore…other then test which I do need ,from my dr.

So I think I will go with the anavar…
so anavar 40 a day
test about 300
right now I take 100 a week…do I just up to 3 ?
and isnt 1502x a week better then 300 at once ?
any speical time of day should I take the anavar…do I split the dose…? once again ,I thank you.[/quote]

with test Enth you can take 300 at once and be fine,it may be more convient that way
but if you split it say 150mg on mondays and thursdays you will have a nice even blood level all the way through

its your choice really
I would wait for about 3 weeks after bumping up your dose to take the anavar because the anavar takes like a day to hit you while the test takes about 3 weeks

the anavar at 40mgs is a decent dose IMO
I have seen people with 60mgs

50 seems to be a decent start off point.
but try the 40 see how you feel if you want to try 50mg its just another pill no big deal.
you can split the dose up morning and evening dose with the anavar but IMO its not needed just take them when you wakeup and go about your day.

your test seems a little low but if you respond to that its cool you will not gain a lot of size on these dosages but you will get stronger which is what you want right?

now do you have pct in order or will you just go back to the TRT dose after you run this cycle? like a blast and cruise?

also do you have AIs in place
A’dex Nolva becuase low dosages like that I dont see really a need for nolva but the possiblity is still there and its good insurance to have it
I think a’dex is a must anytime you take test in no mater what dose.

Just a thought, but does injecting Winstrol produce a different result from oral administration?

Aren’t both ways still Liver toxic? Or is this a question of absorption?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Just a thought, but does injecting Winstrol produce a different result from oral administration?

Aren’t both ways still Liver toxic? Or is this a question of absorption?[/quote]

its liver toxic if taken oraly because it goes to the liver to be metabolised

injected it does not go through the liver so its not an issue,I may be wrong here but I think I am correct.

oraly its absorbed more so IM like anything else so you would take a larger dose oraly.

or so I have been told anyways,if I am wrong on this please someone correct me.

[quote]Nich wrote:
fightu35 wrote:
TheBeat2 wrote:
To answer another one of your questions: I guess I wouldn’t bother with it at first. For your goals I would start by getting my test up to around 300mg/week, I wouldn’t go much higher before I added something else as you seem performance minded over gains.

Anavar is actually quite a good aas for performance enhancement at 40mg/day, and will help with recovery and performance gains. Winstrol will too, and about equally, though it’s cheaper and much harder on your system.

An example of someone who does cagefighting professionally that I know quite well does for his cycling is:
300mg/week Testosteron
200mg/week Trenbolone
40mg/week Winstrol
All ran months out for a contest. At about 8 weeks out he switches to:
300mg/week Testosteron (maybe 200mg/week?)
150mg/week Masteron
40mg/week Anavar
and I believe he switches to creams and suspensions for the last 2-3 weeks.

The point of showing this cycle was to point out the lower doses used for someone focused on performance and recovery…and he is by no means a small guy, he looks like a old-style bodybuilder or a thick underwear model

thank you for your reply…yes gains is not my goal…I guess some help with fat loss/getting lean is my #1 the only reason I say that is because after this…I will not take anythnig anymore…other then test which I do need ,from my dr.

So I think I will go with the anavar…
so anavar 40 a day
test about 300
right now I take 100 a week…do I just up to 3 ?
and isnt 1502x a week better then 300 at once ?
any speical time of day should I take the anavar…do I split the dose…? once again ,I thank you.

with test Enth you can take 300 at once and be fine,it may be more convient that way
but if you split it say 150mg on mondays and thursdays you will have a nice even blood level all the way through

its your choice really
I would wait for about 3 weeks after bumping up your dose to take the anavar because the anavar takes like a day to hit you while the test takes about 3 weeks

the anavar at 40mgs is a decent dose IMO
I have seen people with 60mgs

50 seems to be a decent start off point.
but try the 40 see how you feel if you want to try 50mg its just another pill no big deal.
you can split the dose up morning and evening dose with the anavar but IMO its not needed just take them when you wakeup and go about your day.

your test seems a little low but if you respond to that its cool you will not gain a lot of size on these dosages but you will get stronger which is what you want right?

now do you have pct in order or will you just go back to the TRT dose after you run this cycle? like a blast and cruise?

also do you have AIs in place
A’dex Nolva becuase low dosages like that I dont see really a need for nolva but the possiblity is still there and its good insurance to have it
I think a’dex is a must anytime you take test in no mater what dose.

[/quote]

thank you very much…I was just about to order liquid anti…should I get adex ? lestra ? or the other 1 (I forgot)

my last test results was im holding at 700-740 on 100 a week…no anti…but also no sides…Im not sure how I should feel…but to be honest…other then huge huge pumps…and im stronger ( i do not lift for gains ,nor that much)

I do not feel anything…?? will a level of 26-28 E2 cause this…would getting it lower.realy make DIFF ? thank you so much…if someone way I can help you…just ask

400 - 500 mg of test per week will give you the results you want. Keep your diet clean and with the amount of cardio you do it should get you to the point you want to be at.

Stay away from tren as it kills most for cardio purposes.

Your current E3 levels are on the low end of normal and are not a problem however, with the added test some adex would likely be a nice addition.

From my understanding a level of around 20 is about where you want to be at. Any lower and it will inhibit gains and any higher and you risk elevated E related side effects.

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
400 - 500 mg of test per week will give you the results you want. Keep your diet clean and with the amount of cardio you do it should get you to the point you want to be at.

Stay away from tren as it kills most for cardio purposes.

Your current E3 levels are on the low end of normal and are not a problem however, with the added test some adex would likely be a nice addition.

From my understanding a level of around 20 is about where you want to be at. Any lower and it will inhibit gains and any higher and you risk elevated E related side effects.[/quote]

ok thank you should I inject 2x a week ? or more ? or once?

tren I could not take…in my system to long…also my last injection was monday 4am(before i go running)should i build up 2 more test ? once again thank you.

also I get test from my dr.(paddock labs) but will have to buy some to add to it…is it ok to mix brands ?

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
LillGuy001 wrote:
400 - 500 mg of test per week will give you the results you want. Keep your diet clean and with the amount of cardio you do it should get you to the point you want to be at.

Stay away from tren as it kills most for cardio purposes.

Your current E3 levels are on the low end of normal and are not a problem however, with the added test some adex would likely be a nice addition.

From my understanding a level of around 20 is about where you want to be at. Any lower and it will inhibit gains and any higher and you risk elevated E related side effects.

ok thank you should I inject 2x a week ? or more ? or once?

tren I could not take…in my system to long…also my last injection was monday 4am(before i go running)should i build up 2 more test ? once again thank you.

also I get test from my dr.(paddock labs) but will have to buy some to add to it…is it ok to mix brands ?[/quote]

brand name test is still test.
just try and get yourself some good quality pharm grade stuff if at all possible.

remember too if you bump your e2 down too low you may start feeling achy joints.
I do thats how I know I need to ease up on the adex all my joints feel “dry”
once I ease up for a day or 2 I am fine.

and ya tren is ak iller .great gains but ya you may not want it because of the testing and also your conditioning will suffer.

[quote]Nich wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Just a thought, but does injecting Winstrol produce a different result from oral administration?

Aren’t both ways still Liver toxic? Or is this a question of absorption?

its liver toxic if taken oraly because it goes to the liver to be metabolised

injected it does not go through the liver so its not an issue,I may be wrong here but I think I am correct.

oraly its absorbed more so IM like anything else so you would take a larger dose oraly.

or so I have been told anyways,if I am wrong on this please someone correct me.[/quote]

No, the steroid is going to be filtered through the liver whether it was swallowed or shot. The theory is that because the liquid avoids the first-pass metabolism of the liver that it is easier on the liver. Well, the truth is that because of the avoidance of the first pass more steroid is bioavailble to do it’s thing, but in the end the same amount of steroid is going to be processed and filtered.

I agree with your dosing protocol with the Anavar, too many people complicate it and try to match the half-life, which sounds good in theory, but in the end doesn’t make much difference. I do want to say that many people, myself inclulded, find that too much at once can cause a bloated feeling. I much prefer an AM/PM dosing with Anavar and everything in general.

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
LillGuy001 wrote:
400 - 500 mg of test per week will give you the results you want. Keep your diet clean and with the amount of cardio you do it should get you to the point you want to be at.

Stay away from tren as it kills most for cardio purposes.

Your current E3 levels are on the low end of normal and are not a problem however, with the added test some adex would likely be a nice addition.

From my understanding a level of around 20 is about where you want to be at. Any lower and it will inhibit gains and any higher and you risk elevated E related side effects.

ok thank you should I inject 2x a week ? or more ? or once?

tren I could not take…in my system to long…also my last injection was monday 4am(before i go running)should i build up 2 more test ? once again thank you.

also I get test from my dr.(paddock labs) but will have to buy some to add to it…is it ok to mix brands ?[/quote]
Tren is a cardio killer, winds me walking up the stairs. But some do ok at small doses, but I don’t see it fitting your particular goals right now anyway and was merely showing someone else’s cycle.

I would split your doses into twice a week. I would just start right in, when you want with the full dose.

At 300mg/week Test I would use a low-dose AI, maybe Arimidex at .25mg/Eod-day (more likely per day) and check your E2 levels after a few weeks. If you go higher, adjust accordingly, liquid is easier to dose though inconvient in it’s own ways. I like my estrogen at between 20-30ng/ml - when it gets too low for me it really effects my sex drive, and any higher is not needed or ideal for overall health.

Mixing brands isn’t going to be an issue.

ok got it guys…so whats the best way to take the anavar ? does it matter…I have T3 here also…and clen which I can take or leave…so
test 300-400
anavar 40-60 a day
t3 100mcg a day ?
how should I and when should I take the anavar…I take T3 every 3-4 hrs ?
I should be good after this guys…so thanks for the help

[quote]fightu35 wrote:
ok got it guys…so whats the best way to take the anavar ? does it matter…I have T3 here also…and clen which I can take or leave…so
test 300-400
anavar 40-60 a day
t3 100mcg a day ?
how should I and when should I take the anavar…I take T3 every 3-4 hrs ?
I should be good after this guys…so thanks for the help[/quote]

~Take the Anavar 20mg AM and 20mg PM as stated earlier. I don’t like to take more than that at once, and don’t see the need or results of taking it more often.
To sum: 20mg AM/PM

~I don’t think I’d take 100mcg of T3, especially with your goals. With T3 the ideal is to optimize your T3 levels while dieting/exercising/etc when done strenously can lower levels, by taking the T3 you are guaranteed to maintain high levels (or at least as high as you take)

The thing to remember with T3 is that 100mcg will in no way give twice the results of 50mcg, but will give more than twice the sides; and note that a lot of the sides are not noticed i.e. Heart stress.

Given your fighting and training, I would not want added stress to the heart without much of a benefit from it. 50mcg would be a good dose and can actually increase anabolism, 75mcg would probably be the most I would recommend given your training, and I don’t see the sense in anyone taking more than 100mcg.
To sum: 50mcg/day

~I’d probably leave the Clen out, but that may be a personal decision as my reason for leaving it out is that it negatively effects my performance at effective doses.

I would however, suggest Albuterol in it’s place or even Ephedrine/caffiene as they don’t seem to have as much of the negatives and are easily controllable as for when you want a said effect. I.e. taken in the morning for a fat loss boost, but not in the evening for fight training, etc.

Though Ehpedrine will give a added performance factor somewhat, in the long run it does effect endurance contray to the belief of people who do easy endurance training or at least it is not noticed as a hampering agent as it’s benefits are more easily seen.

To sum: leave the Clen out, but one of the other B2a’s might be of a benefit.