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Adding Proviron to TRT (Post Finasteride Syndrome)

Hi everyone,

This is essentially a re-post from a different forum, but I think this may be a better place for the topic.

I’m currently 39 years old. I’ve always been into bodybuilding, but that kinda took a nose-dive almost 10 years ago due to the use of Dutasteride for hairloss (from 2005 to 2010). Long story short I developed Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS) and haven’t been the same since. Drastic negative changes in body comp (muscle atrophy/subq fat), energy, libido are the big 3 symptoms, although there are plenty of other smaller but significant symptoms as well. I eventually had to go on TRT long term a couple of years ago, but I am still suffering PFS symptoms and am having difficulty dialing everything in.

My current Protocol is:

Test E: 40mg x 2x/wk (SubQ)
HCG: 400iu’s x 2x/wk (SubQ)

Multivitamin (Garden of Life - Men’s)
Blood Sugar Support (for the additional Zinc/Magnesium)
Vitamin D3 4000iu’s
Fish Oil 1000mg
Nascent Iodine 4mg, with Selenium 200mg (past 2 months due to low body temps - suspected Wilson’s Syndrome)

My last TRT bloodwork was as follows:

TT: 884 ng/dL (R=240-950)
FT: 23.9 ng/dL (R=4.65-18.1)
E2: 35 pg/mL (R=7-43)*
SHBG: 30 nmol/L (R=13-90)*
*Historical Estimate

Everything else has been in good order (but feel free to inquire further). I’m having more BW results coming in tomorrow, which will include some expanded thyroid testing. The only change I’ve made since last BW is dropping T dose from 90mg/wk to 80/mg/wk (trying to get FT & E2 in range/optimal).

I’ve experimented with higher doses of Test, which seem to make me feel better initially/intermittently but also causes me to have some really bad days. The lower current dose has been a lot more even-keeled feeling. But regardless of the dose, I seem to have only about 3-4 hrs of decent energy in the beginning of the day (unless I consume copious amts of caffeine). I’ve also tried AI’s when my Test/E2 was a little higher (around top of range), but am overly sensitive to them - for example, 1/4 tab 2x/wk of Anastrozole or Exemestane is still too much (although the Exemestane is a little gentler and takes longer to crash me).

Based on everything I’ve read about my symptoms and PFS in general, I still have Estrogen dominance. I’ve heard this can cause an entire cascade of issues (including thyroid, which is why I just asked for more testing).

This led me to explore adding Proviron to my current TRT protocol, which I will be able to start later this week. It seems that PFS guys like me have down-regulated/de-sensitized androgen receptors that lead to E dominance. This is where I want the Proviron to kick in and regulate.

Planning 25mg/day. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated…

Thanks!

I have a body, but I am not building it, so I can’t share like-for-like data.

But I do have an interest in Proviron for other reasons than Estrogen reduction. And so far in my trials, it has failed to provide any benefit. But I haven’t given up on it.

Some say its completly useless.
some say great during PCT
some say it make you harder
some say it works as anti-e
some say it doesn’t work as anti-e
some say it is a boner pill
some say it makes you act like a dog in heat
some say it makes you feel like shit

And that is the main problem with Proviron. It is one of those drugs that has highly personalized results. You will read a lot of TALK, but rarely will you see labs to bolster the reviews.

I hope you will post your experiences and hopefully your labs to document what you find. Good Luck!

First of all, going by your bloods, it looks like you could reduce the TRT to 30mg, and HCG to 250iu, both 2x /wk. Should get your FT in range, and e2 in the 20s hopefully.

Proviron even at 25mg per day will deliver for sure. I feel it doing 12.5mg MWF but I’m not injecting anything anymore.

You could also try straight Andractim / DHT cream.

Have you tested DHT-level or are you going to do that to determine where you are at? Just interested how this is going to work.

I will definitely document my progress or lack thereof here…but probably not with additional lab$ (on Proviron) since I don’t want my Dr. to see FT any higher.

The labs above are actually from Test@90mg/wk. I’d like to stay at the current 80mg/wk since it’s easier to see on the syringe (using 200mg/ml). It also seems I need a little more than the bare minimum Hcg to keep testicles from turning to raisins, so I’d rather not reduce that yet either.

tontongg: Did u have actual PFS symptoms that the Proviron helped? Did it restore lost muscle mass?

I had DHT levels tested a long time ago and I believe they were normal, but unfortunately with PFS the actual levels in our bodies seem to be irrelevant since there is a problem using our own (natural) DHT. Something being wrong with the androgen receptor.

There are numerous reports of PFS guys (and difficult Trt responders) using exogenous/synthetic DHT steroids/PHs and having success. I really hope to be another.

I have never experienced PFS nor taken that drug but my suggestion to you is to find something to increase the activity of the 5ar-reductase enzyme.
Vitamin B5 in megadoses does it (it can actually make you feel like you’re on a high dose steroid cycle) but it’s hit or miss whether it does anything on that enzyme UNLESS you use DMSO with it.
Vitamin B5 + DMSO = you feel it instantly (its effects on increasing 5ar-recutase activity) especially if you mix the b5 with pregnenolone.

How did it go with Proviron for PFS?

Hi guys,

First, I’d like to apologize for not keeping in touch like I should have.

The Proviron didn’t really do anything for me as far as I could tell. At first I thought it was having a strange calming/cooling effect, but that wore off about 10 days in and I started feeling like my free T got too high and was converting to E2. I was no longer taking any form of AI.

Anyway, I kept up with the 25mg/day for the full 6 weeks, and while there may have been some slight “drying out” in the very beginning, I can’t say for sure whether that was placebo making me want to workout harder or what. I know I’ll get ripped for saying this, but I’m not 100% sure it was real Proviron. Mostly sure though because I seemed to have lost more hair throughout the “cycle.”

I’m no longer on TRT and although my test is a little lower, it doesn’t seem to matter…I don’t feel much worse. PFS just doesn’t really care what your test levels are.

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Proviron doesn’t really do that, and Wilson’s Syndrome is not an actual real thing. It’s a lunatic who had to give up his license trying to be rich and famous. Sorry the porblem wasn’t resolved for ou though.

Correct About free t getting too high but it was converting to too much dht not e2.

Yes it does. In multiple ways. One reason: It is dht. DHT binds to shbg and frees up test. So he is right about it creating too much free test. But rather that free test is creating too much dht not e2 like he says.

Whether or not dht is binding preferentially to SHBG is not actually relevant. You aromatise what you aromatise. Unless his free T was around zero, having more will not result in more E2 and Proviron itself is non-aromatising. It will almost certainly result in lower SHBG over time, as any elevation of anfrogens over time will do that as a natural reaction in the human body. The notion that you can “Feel” more E2 being aromtised is nonsense. You might feel side effects of E2, mostly from low E2, you can’t “Feel” small variations. He was experiencing mentally generated symptoms.

Read my post. The last sentence. I said he is correct about it freeing up too much test. But wrong about that free test converting to excessive e2.

My psychiatrist says I’m not mental! On a serious note, I agree with all of you on the E2 not being the issue, but the “feel” can sometimes be similar to having your free T too high…at least in my case. Just like some folks who have a hard time differentiating high vs. low E2 symptoms.

In any event, I’ve been off TRT for a while now and want to try another DHT cycle again in the near future. I’d like to see what a higher dose can do with slightly lower (natty) free T levels. As soon as find/decide on a source, I’m going to combine 50mg/day Masteron with 50mg/day Proviron and see how that goes.

Do that if you want a heart attack and your hair to fall out. Not to mention everything else. It will absolutely CRUSH you in every way. Your estrogen will become non existant. You will barely be able to stay awake. Forget it. You need Many many more hours of research before touching this stuff again.

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Wow, didn’t know those had THAT much anti-E effect, so perhaps just the 50mg/day Proviron and leave it at that. I’ve accidentally crushed my E2 with AI’s (and even DIM) in the past, and that is the absolute worst feeling of all hormonal imbalances.

I don’t know about the heart attack part, but certainly anybody that is sensitive to these things will not have a fun time being totally suppressed with no test base. You’re right about him needing to avoid it for sure.

Man in the 60s, 70s etc bodybuilders never ran test… Granted they typically ran lower(ish) dosages, lived relatively health consciously… but they didn’t all drop from heart attacks mid-cycle (lifespan of a bodybuilder from the 60’s, 70s etc generally appears considerably longer than that of todays bodybuilders)

They didn’t typically run test. I believe methenolone solo cycles weren’t unheard of.

There’s certainly the prospect of a lack of E2 (esp in correlation with excess androgen) inducing endothelial dysfunction, dyslipidemia etc… but acutely over a few weeks it probably won’t induce a heart attack. Mesterolone itself is approved to treat hypogonadism here (not a particularly effective treatment though, affinity to 3 HSD enzyme renders it an ineffective anabolic agent, low oral bioavailability etc.)

It’s not the healthiest decision, and I certainly wouldn’t recommend anyone use any kind of medication (for anyone, not merely pertaining to this guys situation, I’m not a doctor… though a mast/proviron “cycle” seems like a bad idea). Hair-loss is also largely dictated by genetic predisposition. Some bodybuilders use like 4-600mg mast/wk + and don’t lose hair, others go bald on 100mg test/wk.

I’ve tried 120mg deca 100mg mast for around 4 wks and I felt FINE… great actually… no test, lipids were trash though (HDL 27, LDL like 140-145, HDL is typically 42ish LDL 100 on 200mg/wk, probably better on 100-150mg test/wk). My prescribed TRT dose is 150mg/wk, though I’m currently using 100mg/wk… I feel… not optimal, but not terrible either. Cavg is probably around 600ng/dl, perhaps ever so slightly lower.

No you cant use a dht alone without testosterone. Even with testosterone you have to be very careful not to Spill the ratio.

I’m a newb. I’m guessing just taking proviron without test would be bad because the e2 drop? Or no? Would the same be true with andractim on it’s own?

I’m on shitty testogel… do you think that’s enough of a base for adding proviron, even at split pill 12.5mg daily dose?