[quote]mavis13 wrote:
Do to popular belif there is a middle to you Pecs its the sternal head/fibers. They run from the sternum, which is at the center. This can be targeted from flat bench press, flies, and the pec deck.
Another good one too which Ive used is Combo dumbbell/cable press. Here is the link for a good chest specilized program http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1236824.
Also the other head/fibers Clavicular head, upper chest, Sternal head, and costal head/fibers, lower chest.
As everyone else has said adding mass will help.[/quote]
You better duck…I sense a Prof X smackdown coming.
Rather than the middle chest, most should spend more effort on upper chest. Due to the dominance of flat bench in routines, I see few that have balanced upper and lower development. I include myself in this group.
that db cable press looks brutal. For those who don’t have a cable crossover machine one can use a jumpstretch band held behind the back and dumbbells to get a similar effect. These kick ass and will definately get you burning
[quote]mavis13 wrote:
Do to popular belif there is a middle to you Pecs its the sternal head/fibers. They run from the sternum, which is at the center. This can be targeted from flat bench press, flies, and the pec deck.
Another good one too which Ive used is Combo dumbbell/cable press. Here is the link for a good chest specilized program http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1236824.
Also the other head/fibers Clavicular head, upper chest, Sternal head, and costal head/fibers, lower chest.
As everyone else has said adding mass will help.[/quote]
Your muscle fibers run HORIZONTALLY. That means the fibers on the outside of your chest are the same damn fibers on the inside of your chest. You are giving anatomic names that describe the position of the fibers. That has jack shit to do with anyone thinking you somehow train those fibers differently.
Thanks…gives me a lot more understanding…You think it would be a good idea to maybe start off on incline instead of bench first? Not getting the results from bench that expected.
Bench-305 max
incline-??..never maxed out on it…i know i need to.
I guess i have a lot more to learn.
man…didnt know the question would cause all of this…
i have to start out by saying i dont disagree with the article posted as the guy would obviously know better than me, before i get crucified. but i will say that whenever i bench i do feel more of a tightness in the out region of my chest than the inner at my sternum. its also the area thats grown more. one guess im thinkin is because the shoulders carry a lot of the load and this part of the chest is closer to the shoulders maybe?
Upper and lower chest is about all you can reasonably affect with training.
Other than that, just get bigger pecs.
[quote]jeremymoore82 wrote:
incline-??..never maxed out on it…i know i need to.
[/quote]
I honestly think (for bodybuilding) that maxing out serves no purpose. The only reason most do it is just to say they can bench xxx amount of weight.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
jeremymoore82 wrote:
incline-??..never maxed out on it…i know i need to.
I honestly think (for bodybuilding) that maxing out serves no purpose. The only reason most do it is just to say they can bench xxx amount of weight. [/quote]
I haven’t “maxed out” in a decade. There is no purpose other than what you stated. Either way, now when people ask how much I bench, I just say, “I don’t”.
[quote]HueyLewis wrote:
i have to start out by saying i dont disagree with the article posted as the guy would obviously know better than me, before i get crucified. but i will say that whenever i bench i do feel more of a tightness in the out region of my chest than the inner at my sternum. its also the area thats grown more. one guess im thinkin is because the shoulders carry a lot of the load and this part of the chest is closer to the shoulders maybe?[/quote]
The pec minor also runs underneath the outer part of pec major, so that muscle getting bigger can make it look like only the outer part of the pec major is growing. Make sure to keep your shoulder blades pinned back and down throughout the entire movement and finish the reps by locking out your elbows.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
HueyLewis wrote:
i have to start out by saying i dont disagree with the article posted as the guy would obviously know better than me, before i get crucified. but i will say that whenever i bench i do feel more of a tightness in the out region of my chest than the inner at my sternum. its also the area thats grown more. one guess im thinkin is because the shoulders carry a lot of the load and this part of the chest is closer to the shoulders maybe?
The pec minor also runs underneath the outer part of pec major, so that muscle getting bigger can make it look like only the outer part of the pec major is growing. Make sure to keep your shoulder blades pinned back and down throughout the entire movement and finish the reps by locking out your elbows. [/quote]
Have you ever asked one of these guys to show a picture of their chest? I have. It becomes pretty clear very quickly why they think their chest isn’t growing in certain areas.
Making this complicated for someone like that serves no purpose…but to hinder progress.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
jeremymoore82 wrote:
incline-??..never maxed out on it…i know i need to.
I honestly think (for bodybuilding) that maxing out serves no purpose. The only reason most do it is just to say they can bench xxx amount of weight.
I haven’t “maxed out” in a decade. There is no purpose other than what you stated. Either way, now when people ask how much I bench, I just say, “I don’t”.[/quote]
I agree.
What you can lift once is completely unimportant in regards to bodybuilding.
Lifting a heavy weight once doesn’t make you big.
Just stay in whatever rep-range you respond best to (Which, quite frankly, you have to find out by yourself. No article can tell you. Terrible, no?) and get stronger in that rep-range…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Doug Adams wrote:
HueyLewis wrote:
i have to start out by saying i dont disagree with the article posted as the guy would obviously know better than me, before i get crucified. but i will say that whenever i bench i do feel more of a tightness in the out region of my chest than the inner at my sternum. its also the area thats grown more. one guess im thinkin is because the shoulders carry a lot of the load and this part of the chest is closer to the shoulders maybe?
The pec minor also runs underneath the outer part of pec major, so that muscle getting bigger can make it look like only the outer part of the pec major is growing. Make sure to keep your shoulder blades pinned back and down throughout the entire movement and finish the reps by locking out your elbows.
Have you ever asked one of these guys to show a picture of their chest? I have. It becomes pretty clear very quickly why they think their chest isn’t growing in certain areas.
Making this complicated for someone like that serves no purpose…but to hinder progress.[/quote]
While I agree my explanation could’ve been shortened, the advice on form should still be considered. When guys hear they need to gain mass on their chest, they’re going to try to crank out more reps and more weight. While this is great for people who know what they’re doing and know what to feel, for people who don’t it could be as hindering as thinking too much.
Case in point- last night I was at the gym and saw a skinny A&F wearing kid trying to do shoulder presses. His form was atrocious (one arm way out in front) and at the end of his sets he was rubbing his shoulders. Telling this kid to lift more weight or do more reps without doing the lift correctly is only going to get him in trouble.
Some interesting conversations here for sure Jeremy and some mixed messages, like always it seems. (Sigh) I have been training a long time and I felt as though I had a bit of a valley between my pec heads as well. I incorporated a couple techniques into my workouts for a few cycles to see if I could change that. The mirror says yes but I couldnt tell you the scientific why.
Here is what I did and I certainly cannot see that trying this out for a few months hurting your progress.
I started using a pec deck fly for one of my isolation movements with a brief static hold at the contracted peak. Just a second or two will do. When I finished up my last set I would switch my arms out of the pads and push the pads together with my hands instead of my elbows for a few partials with the same squeeze / pause on each of those. I was able to illicit a nice burn in the region this way. Save this one for your last chest exercise and do them while you are pre-fatigued.
The other thing I did was to continue my pressing movements beyond where I normally consider the stopping point. So in the bench press I would press the weight up to the point where my elbows would lock out. This would normally be where I would make my descent. Instead, at this point I would try and concentrate on lifting the bar even further up by contracting my chest and pulling my shoulders forward together until I lifted my shoulders somewhat off of the bench. You can actually move the bar a another inch or more and I could certainly feel this work in the middle region of my chest. The same technique can be used for dumbells as well. Inclines, declines, flats, you can do this on all of them and I encourage you to use all three positions for full chest development. I did not do these on my heaviest lifting days (6 - 3 rep weights) but only on lighter days where I was lifting 15 - 8 rep weights. I didnt want to interfere with my strength training so much.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Doug Adams wrote:
HueyLewis wrote:
i have to start out by saying i dont disagree with the article posted as the guy would obviously know better than me, before i get crucified. but i will say that whenever i bench i do feel more of a tightness in the out region of my chest than the inner at my sternum. its also the area thats grown more. one guess im thinkin is because the shoulders carry a lot of the load and this part of the chest is closer to the shoulders maybe?
The pec minor also runs underneath the outer part of pec major, so that muscle getting bigger can make it look like only the outer part of the pec major is growing. Make sure to keep your shoulder blades pinned back and down throughout the entire movement and finish the reps by locking out your elbows.
Have you ever asked one of these guys to show a picture of their chest? I have. It becomes pretty clear very quickly why they think their chest isn’t growing in certain areas.
Making this complicated for someone like that serves no purpose…but to hinder progress.
While I agree my explanation could’ve been shortened, the advice on form should still be considered. When guys hear they need to gain mass on their chest, they’re going to try to crank out more reps and more weight. While this is great for people who know what they’re doing and know what to feel, for people who don’t it could be as hindering as thinking too much.
Case in point- last night I was at the gym and saw a skinny A&F wearing kid trying to do shoulder presses. His form was atrocious (one arm way out in front) and at the end of his sets he was rubbing his shoulders. Telling this kid to lift more weight or do more reps without doing the lift correctly is only going to get him in trouble.[/quote]
One simple truth will make your life easier and allow you to focus on those with more potential…you can’t save everyone. If someone actually needs to be told that constant joint pain is not normal when doing an exercise, they just may not be cut out for this long term.
What will it be next time? You won’t be there when they are spending 200 bucks a month on crap supplements or the next time he trains some other muscle group equally wrong.
[quote]Wilderman wrote:
Some interesting conversations here for sure Jeremy and some mixed messages, like always it seems. (Sigh) I have been training a long time and I felt as though I had a bit of a valley between my pec heads as well. [/quote]
Everyone doesn’t have the same gap at the sternum between their left and right pectorals. Some have pecs that meet in the middle and some don’t. An exercise won’t change this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wilderman wrote:
Some interesting conversations here for sure Jeremy and some mixed messages, like always it seems. (Sigh) I have been training a long time and I felt as though I had a bit of a valley between my pec heads as well.
Everyone doesn’t have the same gap at the sternum between their left and right pectorals. Some have pecs that meet in the middle and some don’t. An exercise won’t change this. [/quote]
The proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes. I modified my routine and noted that changes occurred in the region. I was satisfied that the work produced results in the mirror. I havent suggested that he do anything that would hinder his progress and if works for him as I believe it did for me we can chock it up to voodoo or whatever.
[quote]Wilderman wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Wilderman wrote:
Some interesting conversations here for sure Jeremy and some mixed messages, like always it seems. (Sigh) I have been training a long time and I felt as though I had a bit of a valley between my pec heads as well.
Everyone doesn’t have the same gap at the sternum between their left and right pectorals. Some have pecs that meet in the middle and some don’t. An exercise won’t change this.
The proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes. I modified my routine and noted that changes occurred in the region. I was satisfied that the work produced results in the mirror. I havent suggested that he do anything that would hinder his progress and if works for him as I believe it did for me we can chock it up to voodoo or whatever. [/quote]
The proof is also in medical science and basic anatomy. You won’t be changing the insertions or origins of any of your muscle groups. Making that muscle larger can take away focus from the area, but people with naturally wider gaps at the sternum won’t be closing them because of an exercise.
You can claim what you want. It won’t make that one fact any less true.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wilderman wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Wilderman wrote:
Some interesting conversations here for sure Jeremy and some mixed messages, like always it seems. (Sigh) I have been training a long time and I felt as though I had a bit of a valley between my pec heads as well.
Everyone doesn’t have the same gap at the sternum between their left and right pectorals. Some have pecs that meet in the middle and some don’t. An exercise won’t change this.
The proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes. I modified my routine and noted that changes occurred in the region. I was satisfied that the work produced results in the mirror. I havent suggested that he do anything that would hinder his progress and if works for him as I believe it did for me we can chock it up to voodoo or whatever.
The proof is also in medical science and basic anatomy. You won’t be changing the insertions or origins of any of your muscle groups. Making that muscle larger can take away focus from the area, but people with naturally wider gaps at the sternum won’t be closing them because of an exercise.
You can claim what you want. It won’t make that one fact any less true.[/quote]
I dont disagree with your statements nor am I claiming to have changed my muscle insertion points. I believe that I had increased the size of the muscle overall and thus effectively masked this gap by making the muscle fuller. The how I did it I explained. But what happened that caused this result? For the bench press, I suspect that the extension of the range of motion caused further recruitment of muscle fibers and thus more hypertrophy in these fibers that are not normally recruited in a lesser range in that lift. These fibers were not normally called into play with my typical lifting pattern. I believe that the peck deck caused a higher degree of contraction in the muscle due to the angle of the resistance. Compared to a pressing movement or fly movement, the peck deck in this case maintained a full contraction of the muscle over the full range with no let off as you would see in the before mentioned lifts. This too could have effected the recruitment pattern and thus stimulated more fibers. And finally the addition of the partial reps to full contraction further exhausted the fibers that had already been fatigued and thus forced a greater amount of fiber recruitment to fulfill my request for further work at the end of the set.
Im no scientist that is true. My experience tells me that I get better results by exposing the muscles to a fuller range of tension and the harder I tend to contract, the more muscle fibers I am stimulating. By stimulating more fibers I am producing better results. As such I do not choose to perform a single exercise or choose to exercise in a limited range of motion. I use various exercises to stimulate the muscle from different angles and ranges of motion. If this didnt work then we all would probably sit around doing half dumbell curls and getting the same kinds of gains.
