T Nation

Adding HGH to My TRT


#1


I've been on TRT for 2.5 years...

  • 100 mg/wk Test Enanthate taken in divided EOD doses.
  • .25 mg Arimidex EOD
  • HCG 250 EOD
  • injections are sub Q for HCG and quads and shoulders with insulin pin for Test. (this has been working great for me)

Finally found a great Doc willing to prescribe HGH and will picking up my prescription tomorrow.
*My dose will be 1 IU every day.

I was hoping to get some feedback from those of you that are also taking HGH along with your TRT.....did it make a substantial difference? I know all the advertised benefits but was looking for some real world feed back. What can I expect? Also, Are you taking in the AM or PM before bed?

Thanks in advance :slightly_smiling:

Attached is the Saizen Easy Pod delivery system that I will be using. Any feedback on this product would also be appreciated.


#2

Forgot to add…I’m 46 5’11 and 175lbs. Very little BF and in great condition. Eat clean, train consistently but no fucking way I’m giving in to this Age BS!
Had issues prior to TRT with energy levels, sleep, sex drive, my general head space was just so - so. TRT helped all of that! Since starting TRT I’m mostly good but not as much energy as before and my sleep is sucking (wake up at 4am and hard to get back to sleep). Hoping the HGH makes a difference :slight_smile:


#3

i’ve heard some people who take their injects after 12:00pm can cause some sleep issues do to the testosterone…mabe it’s that or not…


#4

I have been on it for about 6 weeks now. I wanted it for the atrophy and shrunken nuts. The big surprise was it helped me considerably with mood, brain fog, and over all sense of well being. There is definitely more to it then what we know.


#5

Cobra I’m talking about HGH not HCG…I think you are probably referring to HCG for the shrunken nuts.


#6

I have been on GH for almost 6 months. The effects can be very good, but it takes 6 weeks for things to get rolling. There are the effects downstream of GH–>IGF-1 and then there are direct effects. I had an early transient effect on sexual performance, within days and when I first injected, my pulse and BP were really up for hours. So there are direct GH effects. I can say this because the IGF-1 takes a while to build and peak, the BP and pulse effects came on rapidly, in minutes. That was transient.

I suggest that you not inject 1 iu for your first dose, but introduce with some smaller doses to let your body get adjusted.

The body does most of its repair at night and GH normally peaks when we sleep. Many believe that there is an advantage to injecting at bed time. IGF-1 levels are reasonably steady and there may not be much need to inject more often, at least that would be a chore.

Do you wear that device or is it really a different package VS an insulin pen device. There are ‘pen’ type GH delivery systems. By getting into a mechanical delivery system, one can be eliminating opportunities for finding more cost effective products.

IGG-1 is to amino acids in serum as insulin is to glucose in serum. If you inject at a point when amino acid levels are peaked after a meal, that would optimize anabolic response if one is training. During digestion, sugars and starches [carbs] are digested first, creating sugars. Later, proteins are broken down to amino acids, screened by the liver and enter serum. At this point, IGF-1 can improve amino acid uptake to build/repair tissues. Muscle tissue is the most active in this regard. In ‘normal’ people, GH peaks when glucose levels are dropping and amino acid levels are rising. So one might be inclined to inject GH at that time [you obviously need to guess that time]. That would make sense if you were injecting GH directly into a vein. There are many reasons not to do IV. However, the normal GH release is smaller amounts and surges during the day. So injecting 1 iu once a day after a meal would not be the same. Noting that with SC injections, peak IGF-1 levels occur 2-3 hours later; one could inject SQ around or before a high protein meal and get some improved anabolic response. The ‘meal’ could be a protein shake.

Can multiple injections during the day be of benefit? I would say yes, but some are not inclined center their lives around such routines. Some are of the mind that higher peaks trigger activity that does not occur with smaller peaks. For some, that suggests, in your case, injecting 2iu EOD. And for someone with an EOD centric T+AI+hCG routine, that may be the way to go.

There really is not much data addressing such things.

Note that IGF-1 level are persistent in terms of GH system repression. Some think that injecting 5 days a week and 2 days of recovery will allow the GH system to recover. That does not occur. This is known by studies with IGF-1 injections where GH levels are basically zero which indicate that recovery of function will not occur in 48 hours.

Some simply cannot afford 7iu per week, at least with Rx which costs at least $10 per unit.

One’s IFG-1 response to GH injections has a few factors:

My example. I had IGF-1=87, when I injected and repressed the GH that was responsible for IGF-1=87, that amount of GH is basically a loss. I ended up with a good response for .9iu/day that took me up passed 200, lets say it was 200. If I had been at 200 and injected .9iu/day, I would expect that I would end up at 200 for a complete loss of cost-benefit. So as we expect from T injections, one has this baseline loss of effect.

So, those with lower levels can be expected to have the greatest increase in IGF-1.

The other issue is how well one’s liver converts GH–>IGF-1. I do not think that it is a conversion when I read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin-like_growth_factor_1

If it was a ‘conversion’, there would be something near a 1:1 conversion from a molecular point of view. I think that one’s liver health would be a factor.


#7

Thanks T Man as always :slight_smile: So you think 2 iu EOD is the way to go? I’ve heard that soe have trouble sleeping when injecting in the evening. What has been your experience?
FYI my cost for month is $390 and it looks like my insurance will cover it (fingers crossed) Well 80% of it anyway.


#8

[quote]senior citizen wrote:
Cobra I’m talking about HGH not HCG…I think you are probably referring to HCG for the shrunken nuts.[/quote]

Sorry I missed that. I am also GH deficient. I didn’t know I was until KSman pointed it out from my lab. Funny thing is when I was at my appointment with my new Endo he said something about how it is hard to prescribe HGH, and it was probably not a option right now. I didn’t realize he brought it up because of my lab, so I didn’t question him about it. I said I understand how insurance companies don’t like to pay for it.
Now that I know, I am going to bring it up this Friday for my second appointment. The whole system really pisses me off. The insurance companies didn’t squawk at paying $1200.00 a month 11 years ago for Interferon treatment for hep c, which probably lead to the condition I’m in now.
Also I went in for my lab Monday, and the only follow up lab they had ordered was TT. I requested E2 and the nurse said the Dr would have to add it and he wasn’t in. I said that is just great, so I have to come back later and probably won’t have new lab for my appointment Friday. She looked at the chart, and said well he ordered it last time so I will go ahead and put it on the order.
I guess I will find out for sure how much he is really willing to work with me this Friday.
Good luck on the HGH, and keep us posted!


#9

KSman: do you have any updates on GH protocol. I am on the TRT program noted in your original sticky protocol for injections (eod). I also am on 1 iu daily HGH (6 days on, 1 off, 6 iu total weekly). However, I would like to go to an eod schedule on the HGH to match my TRT times. So many different views out there on when one should schedule their injection (night, morning, eod,ed and etc).

Right now, if I do my injection in the am and draw blood, I show up over the optimal high end on the results. If I do it at night and draw the next morning, it’s quite a bit lower, like around mid scale range on the results. I am trying to zero this in so that I can have a steady range at any time. Is that possible?, thought you might have updated information since your last post on this subject.


#10

You can’t have steady levels when injecting. However, when the receptors are activated, the effect of that is spread out over time. Note that GH levels vary greatly over time in normal people [not injecting] and IGF-1 will also be varying in time. So steady levels are really not an objective in any case.

When to inject? Some feel that because GH is normally released in larger amounts during sleep, that it makes sense to inject before bedtime. But it really depends on what routine is good for you. If injecting at night is easy for you to manage, it would be a good choice.

Your labs are testing serum GH? That would be wrong. IGF-1 is what should be tested and it has a longer half life and time of day is less of an issue. My doc suggested injecting at night and then the lab values that he sees for all of his patients is from lab work the next morning.

I do hGH and TRT at the same time at night and co-inject hCG and hGH in the same syringe.

My IGF-1 response to hGH is strong and linear. If I plot IGF-1 labs vs dose over time, all of the points fall on an straight line. So if I had a lab that did not fall on the line, I would know that the hGH potency was not right and could easily calculate the potency from that single data point.


#11

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can’t have steady levels when injecting. However, when the receptors are activated, the effect of that is spread out over time. Note that GH levels vary greatly over time in normal people [not injecting] and IGF-1 will also be varying in time. So steady levels are really not an objective in any case.

When to inject? Some feel that because GH is normally released in larger amounts during sleep, that it makes sense to inject before bedtime. But it really depends on what routine is good for you. If injecting at night is easy for you to manage, it would be a good choice.

Your labs are testing serum GH? That would be wrong. IGF-1 is what should be tested and it has a longer half life and time of day is less of an issue. My doc suggested injecting at night and then the lab values that he sees for all of his patients is from lab work the next morning.

I do hGH and TRT at the same time at night and co-inject hCG and hGH in the same syringe.

My IGF-1 response to hGH is strong and linear. If I plot IGF-1 labs vs dose over time, all of the points fall on an straight line. So if I had a lab that did not fall on the line, I would know that the hGH potency was not right and could easily calculate the potency from that single data point.

KSman : thanks for the information. Am I right to assume you are injecting your hgh eod than? If so, are you doubling the amount of your daily rate? E.g. I have been doing 1iu per day, if I followed the eod method, I would do 2iu eod… Also co-inject, are you loading your hcg and then using the same syringe and pulling from the hgh vial (or vice versa), not worried about any cross cintamination? Again, thank you for your time and knowledgable input. FYI, I have been testing my IGF-1.


#12

KSman : thanks for the information. Am I right to assume you are injecting your hgh eod than? If so, are you doubling the amount of your daily rate? E.g. I have been doing 1iu per day, if I followed the eod method, I would do 2iu eod… Also co-inject, are you loading your hcg and then using the same syringe and pulling from the hgh vial (or vice versa), not worried about any cross cintamination? Again, thank you for your time and knowledgable input. FYI, I have been testing my IGF-1.


#13

I was on HGH for 4 years. It took a while to notice it working…but through trials of getting off for small periods of time, I could tell it was working for me. Then last year I had to go cold turkey after years of steady use and it made me feel horrific…the only reason I stopped is an insurance issue and inability to pay. I would kill to be back on HGH.

More about my story later if I have time to explain. Integrative medicine saved my life - quite literally. T, hcg, adex, HGH, supplements, vitamin IVs, neurofeedback, etc saved my life. Then all the sudden years later my workers compensation insurance company says it cost too much so go back on pain and psych meds instead. I have been battling in court for a year, keep winning, they keep appealing. It could be a landmark case. Insurance covers integrative medicine, it saves my life and I make miraculous improvement, then they say it cost too much so go back on harsh and addictive drugs. When I said no, then they accused me of faking my medical problems, to which even their own expert medical examiner agreed about my medical conditions AND to continue supplements and hormones, not start up on Vicodin and psych meds again. So they appealed…and try other avenues to get out of paying.

If you need HRT, it works!!! Trust me!


#14

I do hCG EOD and hGH ED.