T Nation

Adding HCG After 3 yrs on T-Only TRT?


#1

Hey guys - I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row for my doctors visit

My current regiment is:

200MG of T broken up into EOD injections (high I know but that's what it takes unfortunately)
0.4ML of AI EOD

Last test results were T in the 800s and E2 of 35. I added the AI myself as my doctor wouldn't and I was having a ton of E2 related symptoms. I came up with the dosage based on 35/22 = 1.6ML so .40 EOD to get ~1.6 in 8 days

My question is whether there would be any value in adding 250 HCG EOD as outlined in the injection thread? I understand that it prevents testicular atrophy but after 3 years on TRT would it really matter - I guess I'm asking if they would come back? We're done having kids and I'm not necessarily concerned about the emotional/physiological aspect of the it - just looking for any benefit that I might be missing. I can try to replace the Pregnenolone potentially through tablets.

Also, how would I need to adjust my T and AI if they did come back online. Obviously I would need the blood test to see impact but if the testes were back on, would I need to drop my T down and maintain my AI - or increase my AI based on the T->E2 in the testes?

End of the day, I told myself that I would get my TRT inline in 2011 b/c I'm tired of having to rely on my doctor telling me to just inject more and I'll feel better when that's not really the case.


#2

I would strongly advise running additional tests to try and figure out why you need so much T before you make any other changes.

is it possible that your system just needs 200mg a week - yes, but it is more likely that you have some other issue and are compensating for it by overdosing on T which then drives the need for Arimidex, and only covers up the underlying issue instead of actually fixing it - which means it could pop up and wreak havoc with you.

have you tested for ferritin, Vitamin D25-OH, Magnesium, B12, prolactin, 8am Cortisol, CHOL #s, DHEA-S, or others?

Are you taking any supplements, vitamins, or any other medications?


#3

The only other thing that was really tested as Thyroid which TSH was 1.02

As far as medication - only Lisinipril and Atenolol for a heart defect (too much tissue, too much electrical current and slightly enlarged left chambers so resting heart rate of 120BPM without it).

I'm not currently taking any vitamins/supplements so if there are any that would be recommended, I would love to hear them so I can added them.


#4

fish oil
4000-6000iu vit-D3 as oil based caps
high potency B-complex vitamins - some do contain iodine

We have never seen that a T hyper-metabolizer has ever found out why that is, so no fix. I do have concerns that all steroid hormones might be spilling through the kidneys when they should be spared. If your vitD25 does not respond well to vit-D3, then that is another steroid hormone been lost. Yes, vit-D25 is a steroid hormone, not anabolic, but a steroid hormone nevertheless.

It is impossible to predict your response to hCG. Only thing that you can do is try it and see. If the testes recover physically, they were not totally degenerated.

T might go up, might not. If you had primary hypogonadism, non of this will work. If secondary, might work.

As for not feeling right, post back later after you have been near E2=22 for a while.


#5

I still recommend pushing your doctor for more tests or for finding a new doctor who will run the necessary tests.

as for vitamins there is still massive debate over vitamins and supplements. this is good, no it's bad, no it's great, no blah blah blah... you will get five different opinions from every single person you ask (with some people contradicting themselves).

the best thing to do is to run a Spectracell (or similar test) or get blood tests of certain things (per the blood test sticky) and then try and fix those things that are not ideal - otherwise you could just end up overdosing your system on something and causing more problems.

that being said there are a few universal suggestions I keep hearing over and over again:
Vitamin D3 - at least 6,000iu (liquid or gel > powder)
A good overall multi-vitamin
Fish Oil Essential Fatty Acid (dosage recommendations varies)
200mg Vitamin E (Mixed Toco - not just your basic Vitamin E)
Niacin 100mg - 1000mg (depending on how much you can stand - IF you need any help at all with lowering LDL and raising HDL)

other vitamin/supplement options include:

IF you have low ferritin/hemocrit/hemoglobin then reduced or elemental iron 20-30mg + 2,000mg Vitamin C to assist with absorption can be helpful.

some people swear by CoQ10, Green Tea Extract, and Revertasol, but they had weird side effects with me.

If you have thyroid issues, then some recommend 12.5 mg Iodine and 100mcg Selenium.

Probiotics and Digestive enzymes can be helpful for some people as can Betaine HCL (it's amazing the number of people who take acid blockers who are actually getting acid reflux due to too little acid, instead of too much.)

A lot of men also take 25mg Zinc to help with hormone control. If you take more than 25mg, you should consider taking 2mg copper to help offset any copper loss due to extra zinc intake.