T Nation

Actual Research on Orals?


#1

First post in here, so take it easy on me please. I'm years away from potential usage of gear but I still like reading what you guys post and discuss about and try to absorb as much as I can. But anyways....does anyone know of any actual research that has been done that proves orals are worse for your liver than injectibles? All I get on Google is forum posts. thanks


#2

yes this is common knowledge


#3

Like Walkaway said yes. Mainly due to how your body processes orals versus injected.


#4

orals are treated (it's called alkylation if I remember rightly) so they can survive the first pass through the liver. That's why you usually inject steroids; the liver will destroy them, so injecting them gets them into the bloodstream without having to go through the liver. When they pass through the liver, they cause damage.

There's a lot of difference of opinion and broscience about how bad for you orals really are. Our resident Big Dawg Mr Walkway is against their use at all, whereas I think they're fine as long as you keep it to 4 weeks or so.

It really just depends on your general attitude to your lifestyle. I mean I personally have done 1000000x more damage to my liver by drinking then I ever will by using oral steroids. Your liver has a great capacity for recovery, and loads of people use orals without any issue, but there will always be the unlucky individual who ends up turning yellow and getting very sick indeed. Might be you, might not.

Keep it to a few weeks at a time and you'll probably be fine.

But all of this is moot seeing as you aren't going to be taking steroids anytime soon, are you Chobbs?


#5

I think the issue for me with Orals( I still like them) is the underdosage of the them. It sucks.


#6

Nooooo sir not for a long while, but I still like reading and learning about them b/c I will use gear at some point in my training career.


#7

I know this but is there any actual research or has there even been research conducted on this? Not disagreeing w/ you just want to read up on it to form my own opinion


#8

Chobby chob chob when my girlfriend and I first met all we ever did was orals, had no idea it might be bad for my liver. I mean the skin would get raw every now and again but never considered an internal organ being affected.

Speaking of internal organ about a month after we met I started injecting her if you know what I mean. I don't care if it's bad for my liver or hers orals are great.


#9

Teach me your ways wise one


#10

what do you mean form your own opinion? orals are damaging to your liver.. that's an undeniable fact. How much they damage your liver is highly individualized.

they are really bad for your cholesterol as well


#11

Sorry if these are dumb questions but how do we know for sure they are? Blood work, research or just assumptions?


#12

blood work/liver ultrasounds.. etc..


#13

rds and/or WW... Any chance of contacting either of you outside of forums? Have some questions for both of you. Any hint and I'm sure I can find you or I am not unwilling to give my non-personal email out if you're willing to contact it. Thanks in advance.

As to the original question:
IMO and very much simplified... injectables will pass through the liver RELATIVELY undetected, thus causing no strain to the liver and the great majority of the compound enters the blood stream. Orals, particularly 19-nors, are designed to endure pass(es) through the liver without the main androgenic compound being broken down and thus cause unnecessary liver stress.

IMO, and from personal experience, stick to injectables (anyone afraid of needles, trust me, it's really no big deal except your first pin which can be nerve racking) unless you're fully prepared to have liver screens, blood work, etc. done regularly. AAS usage is a serious thing and, as Mr.WW has said time and time again, unless you have a competent source to check your various physiological markers you shouldn't use any form of AAS, particularily orals.

Unless you're a competitive BB, you have no reason to use much of anything outside of Test or MAYBE tren, if you're fairly experienced. Again, all IMO and I'm more than happy to be corrected if necessary.

TL;DR: Orals do hurt liver function, injectables do not. Unless you're a competitive BB, stick to injectables and you'll be happy, happy, happy with no other worries assuming you aren't incompetent about AI or PCT.


#14

injectables do impair liver function yes, they just take longer (and more in terms of mg, generally speaking) to do so..


#15

you can find me on PM or IM or TID or Anasci or MD as "standard donkey"

AM im "standard"

I prefer to be contacted on PM or IM


#16

So, generally speaking, a Test E/Tren E cycle at 500mg/500mg per week will effect liver function the same as a Test P/Tren A cycle at 500mg/500mg per week if both are run for the same duration??

But take that Test P/Tren A cycle and bump it up to say, Test P @ 400 mg/wk and Tren A at 800mg/wk and you increase chances of liver damage vs. the 500mg/500mg dosage?


#17

the shorter esters have more hormone per 100mg so the effect would be slightly more pronounced..

tren is somewhat harmful to the liver, test is relatively benign when it comes to elevating enzymes but it does happen


#18

hmm, I don't know what TID is...

...I'll do some digging


#19

Are there any orals that are worse than others in terms of toxicity?


#20

I've heard Anadrol 50 is ONE of the worst/harshest.