T Nation

Active Shooter


[quote]cavemansam wrote:
zeb i read what you wrote i was being slow,when i ran that through what little brain i got
i laughed my ass off [/quote]

Thanks Cavemansam, I wanted to bring a little humor to a very serious topic. It’s really a great thread.


Fantastic posts by idaho and mapwhap in this thread. Thank you for sharing.


Robert A


The Kansas shooting:

We discussed this around around the Christmas holidays and this current active shooter situation brings into focus some points we discussed:

  • It is one thing to make a dynamic entry on hostile targets when you have the full backing of trained team members or at least backup from another officer, but it takes a rare brand of courage to enter into a deadly active shooter situation by yourself. The Chief of Hesston, Kansas did just that and rightfully so. The only way to stop to an active shooter is to attack. With over 200 employees in the business, he saved many, many lives. A quick Google check this morning shows that Hesston, Kansas has a population of around 3,700. A check with PoliceOne.com shows Hesson has a total of SEVEN police officers. Think about that for a minute, this wasn’t LAPD, LASO, Houston, Dallas, NYPD , this was small town USA. What do you think their level of training is? I can tell you one thing, they didn’t have a large training budget, which makes this all the more remarkable. You do not survive situations like this unless you train and train a lot on your own

  • I don’t know the Chief’s background and I don’t really need to. He has already told me he is a dedicated warrior willing to give his life for the community he serves. There are a lot of children in that community tonight who still have parents based on that one warrior’s actions. My deepest respect, Chief. I will go through a door with you any day.

  • Be ready to defend yourself and your family. As this case points out, there are no safe places. If you think your area is safe and nothing will ever happen there, just ask the population of Hesston, Kansas this morning what they think about that rational. Be safe, train hard, develop good situational awareness, have a plan, make a decision on weapons, if you have family, discuss it. Do anything, however small if seems.

Quote from CBS news:" And it wasn’t just an officer, it was the town’s police chief, Doug Schroeder.
“Rather than even waiting on back up, he went right in and did heroic duty and service,” Kansas Governor Sam Brownback said of Schroeder.
When the police chief stopped the attack, there were till two to three hundred people inside the building.


Agree completely. Waiting to pair up and then “go hunting” could well be the better option in a larger department/if you know backup is almost there because it greatly magnifies the chances of solving the hell out of the problem. However in such a small department how many were even rolling to the call?

I think it is especially great that a chief/admin did that. He deserves all the praise I hope he is getting.


Robert A


Gangland is heating up here unfortunately.
3 men, suited as rapid response police armed with AK-47s. Two entered the hotel.one remained outside.
The two inside killed one target, injured two others (superficial leg and and arm wounds.)

I guess this topic is something you always wish to stay away from your door.
I was due to weigh in here. For one reason or another in wasn’t on the card. The guy weighing in was Former senior elite amateur champion and WSB boxer Gary Sweeney. We train out of the same gym.

Fortunately when troubled started most people hit the floor or concealed behind pillars. Messed up, there were a lot of kids there.


What was the reason for the attack? since weigh ins aren’t usually political statements. I hope your team mate is ok. Thanks. Be safe, bro. I won’t tell you to train hard, since ,I already know you do:))


I’ve read that it was some gangland affair.

Donny, my fingers were itching to ask whether you were at the scene and if you’re alright after finding out about the incident. Couldn’t bring myself to it.


It’s scary, but thankfully there were no innocent parties injured.
Has been a revenge hit since - a week later on an innocent relative.

Police concentration in the capital is very high, but its probably a matter of time until there is another incident.


I am going to repeat something I told a good friend of mine a few years back after several of his friends were involved in a boating accident/stupidity with fatalities.

I am sorry that happened to anyone. I am very, VERY glad that it did not happen to you. If this is going to be an ongoing thing, keep your head on a swivel. Figure out who you are willing to risk your life for upfront.

Stay safe.


Robert A


For those of you still trying to decide whether to obtain a firearm for family and home defense, please read this article. Based on the suspect’s past history, this couple was facing certain death. I do not know their level of training, but, faced with a deadly force situation, they certainly had the will power to fight back. A clear example, that the defense of yourself and your loved ones, falls squarely on your shoulders.


That sounds perilously close to having to take responsibility for my own life and safety.

I think I will continue to rely on others to do that.

And blame them if I don’t like the outcome.

Also, I am going to be hostile towards any media that doesn’t agree with my preconceptions. I just want validation.

And gummy bears.

And bourbon.


Robert A


Another example of someone making the decision to accept responsibility for their own defense.


Feel good story right there.

Isn’t there a quote about the issue not being ignoring reality, as that is easy to do. It is finding a way to ignore the consequences of ignoring reality?


Robert A


Brother, you are getting a little too deep for my feeble mind, but, I think this is what you were referring to.:


Yes, that is it. Ayn Rand huh? I liked some of her papers/philosophy as a thought exercise. Absolutely for shit fiction writer though.

Also, the “feeble mind” thing cracks me up. Complex tracking data of threats is blase, but I am supposed to buy that objectivism is a bridge too far.


Robert A


With the Belgian attacks, its time to review a few points for survival. I first posted this under the “Situation Awareness Thread” and I hope some points will at least make you more aware of your surroundings while traveling.

"I incorporate this topic in lots of my training and it is very difficult to get across, if the student has never faced armed combat or an actual physical assault. Reality is always the best teacher. Sento/Batman and others have covered the topic very well, just a couple of observations:


Having spent the last 9 years working, training, and living in various countries in the Middle East, you have to learn your environment… This applies to everywhere I have worked, including 9 countries in Europe. There are certain situations you need to try and avoid at all costs: large crowds on the streets, lines of people in the markets ,intelligence on whether the area is Shiite or Sunni, know your local hotspots for attacks, does the street have any children playing, if not, run like hell, try to avoid or exit a police/military checkpoint as fast as possible.

Always have secure and reliable communications (I prefer two cell phones with two different carriers) , transportation, backup team or direct communication with a QRT, a reliable and pre planned exit route, and, if legal…weapons.

International travel:

This is where everyone is the most vulnerable. Know the airport lay out the best you can,(maps on walls) arrive 3 hours early , get through customs and then walk the terminal marking the exits, bathrooms, and checkpoints…does it have multiple levels? if so, spend time in the upper levels watching the crowds entering, because, if an attack is going to occur, if will be on the ground level (high percentage). Locate security…is it the army or local police? do they have roving patrols or fixed stations? if they are killed outright, can you operate their weapons for your own survival? visualize an attack and then decide what you are going to do…what cover do you have? where are the exits? have a plan, no matter how simple.


stay away from the “food courts” at all times…if a mass of people a sleeping along the walls ( Kuwait International) never linger…walk on by. watch everyone carefully, especially if they are carrying large amounts of luggage in cardboard or other types of carriers… try to arrive early enough to avoid waiting several hours checking in…This has happened to me several times after late flights and , believe me, waiting with several hundred people on the GROUND FLOOR of a terminal with massive amounts of luggage is not a good situation. Most security entering the ground floor is shit. (recent LA airport shooting). Watch the entrance as much as possible, have a plan. example:( There is nothing wrong with jumping past the ticket agent and crawling through the luggage conveyor belt if someone opens up with an AK-behind you).

The most stupid thing I see every time I travel: USE OF ELECTRONICS.

for God’s sake, get those buds out of your ears, how can you hear gunshots, people yelling, rockets or mortars whistling in with music blasting ?

How the hell, do you watch your area, if you have your face stuck in an I-Phone playing the latest version of whatever…save that crap when you on the plane or in your hotel room.

I brought this subject back up because next month I have to go to Amsterdam to follow up on a assignment. Now, I have always enjoyed working with the Dutch, but, like every European country I ever worked , the thought of me carrying weapons sends them into a pantie twisting frenzy. So,comes down to critical thinking, situational awareness, and luck. The same you will have as a civilian traveling.

I know when orders are orders, so, I will list the most dangerous airports I have been through(IMO), in case business takes you that way.

  • Kabul International: Enough said.

  • Baghdad International: Enough said.

  • Aden Adde: Never, ever, go there.

Mumbai Airport:

Arrive 4 to 6 hours early for an International flight, security sucks, and the crowds are unbelievable. The amount of death would be catastrophe, if someone detonated, either out from or in the waiting area. One of the most chaotic places I have ever been.

Dubai, U.A.E:

This is a major hub for the Middle East, with flights world wide, especially to SE and SW Asia. The front entrance and passenger drop off point is huge and I never been there at anytime where huge crowds were not everywhere. Worse, if you are not flying out of Terminal 1, you have to take a fucking bus to Terminal 2 and they are packed with luggage and people, security is non-existent and since Dubai imports all its labor, the chances of a terrorists getting through is great.

*Doha U.A.ESame as above^^^^^^^

Queen Alia Airport:

They had opened up a new airport terminal the last time I was through there, but, it is a Middle East country and chaos rules the day, same as Dubai and Doha. Security is UNARMED inside, (unless its changed) and I noticed a lot plain clothes security walking around.

Kuwait International:

Huge, huge, crowds out front in the passenger drop of area, one of the most dangerous areas, since they allow vehicles to pull up within 3 feet of the terminal entrance, traffic is always at a stand still and if you have to fly through that death trap of an airport, have the taxi drop you off at the top curve of the road and walk in, he will know what I am talking about. Inside will be total chaos since the airport will be packed with their imported slave labor. Fucking hate Kuwait, legalized slavery for those pampered pussies.

European Airports:

Overall, I have found security to be good, especially, Schiphol. I got off a flight from Kuwait and was walking to the museum to take a quick look, when, I was stopped by three police with SMG’s, who politely asked me to walk to a side room. Seems, someone on monitor duty did not like the way I was walking and told them I might be carrying a gun. For some reason it make them nervous I was carrying credentials, like I was going to go postal or something. I was escorted to the waiting area under guard and one stayed with me until I got on a flight to the states. I had to smile because it was a KLM flight and I asked the guy if he was going to escort me to the states. did not answer or crack a smile, no humor the Dutch.

Even though I have been through LHR, CDG ,LIS and Fumicino with no problems, I try to avoid them since they are prime targets. If you have to travel, try to avoid stop overs as much as possible, every airport you go through is just another potential target.

Be careful, be aware.


Truer words were never spoken!

The mainstream liberal media would have us believe that one only needs to call 911 and they are automatically protected, how foolish. By the time help arrives you could be laying dead riddled with bullet holes.

I often say that I am responsible for my health and well being. My doctor hates seeing me come in for my once a year physical because he knows that I will not listen to his advice willy nilly. I will do my own research first. My health my body my decision. The same goes for the protection of yourself and your family.

  1. Get your permit.

  2. Buy a quality firearm.

  3. Practice on a regular basis so you know how to use it.

Keep posting Idaho I’m loving it.


Great info. The entrance to Kuwait Intl is more like a congested mall than an airport. I couldn’t believe the number of people in the immediate entrance nor the amount of stores. It doesn’t feel like an airport at all.

Have you ever worked with the Kuwaiti military?


“Have you ever worked with the Kuwaiti military?”

No, just a few things with one of their Intelligence Units. Never involved in training units of their military. I had to travel through Ali AL Salem for several years, and other places, so, I have a general working knowledge of their capacities. I despise the Kuwaiti “government” and leave it at that.

Obviously you must have traveled through Kuwait International, that is one place where a car bomb would kill 500 hundred at the entrance. Most of them will be Filipinos, since the Kuwaitis could not wipe their asses , cook their food, or raise their children without some Filipino female serving them like a purchased slave, just like, there would be no roads, bridges, or apartment building without Pakis, Sri Lankan’s, and Indians, doing the construction work. Drive in from Ali Al Salem, about 8 miles from center city, and you will pass row upon row of cheaper apartment buildings, housing up to 15 people per room. I know, I been there will my "counter parts " looking for someone. And never forget, if you are a TCN (Third Country National) working in Kuwait, you have to surrender your passport to your employer. So, some fat bastard hires you to raise his kids, guess who decides when you can leave? Fuck, I hate that place.


I was talking with a DHS agent about active shooters( his wife is a schoolteacher) and the agent pointed out there was was some good, basic information for the public on their web page. You may find find something useful for you and your family: