T Nation

ACSM vs Protein

Supplements and Nutrition
#1

I’d hate it if this was a repeat topic or the discussion had taken place at some point before, but I’d really like to get this off my chest if you’ll please indulge me …

So, I completed my 3day work shop in preparation for a personal trainers certification through the American College of Sports Medicine (ASCM). The thinking supposedly is that of all the certifications available ASCM is most heavily grounded in research and theory.

That said the instructor herself was as knowledgeable and as open mined as one could hope for. Then of course, the discussion moved towards nutrients.

That said, the ASCM guide line suggest the optimal way to consume nutrients are as follows; Carbohydrate > Fat > Protein.

The reason is the body apparently utilizes carbohydrates better than it does fats, and it utilizes protein poorly as a potential fuel source.

So for all intents and purposes protein is not the ideal nutrient.

My purpose here is not necessarily to dispute this fact but I wonder why no significant mention was made as to the overwhelming necessity of protein in meal plans which include intensive weight training and physical activity.

As far as I know it’s dogma for those who train to consume protein as the primary nutrient. I myself make it a point to use this ratio … 75&/15%/10& (protein/fat/carb)

So what am I missing here on this rant? Irrespective of potential fuels sources for the body I’ve lived every day of the past 10 years thinking protein was a key component to my training, physical and dietary salvation.

Was I just naive or did I apply my thinking incorrectly?

Can anyone provide objective insight given our environment is made up of people who make it a point to train seriously?

#2

There’s a reason your body uses protein so poorly as an energy source, it’s because it wants to use it to build things. Almost everything in your body is made of protein, if we were designed to readily burn protein as fuel that would cause some issues. Like using wood from your own house to keep you warm.

Thus, the body readily uses carbohydrates and fats as energy sources.

What she said was technically true, but oversimplifies and neglects the key component.

Sure you can keep the house warm with plenty of fuel (carbs and fats) but you need the material (protein) to build the goddamn roof and walls.

Protein is a vital component of weightlifting nutrition as are fats.

You could live without carbs.

#3

and how are your results and energy levels with this ratio ?
for me its not very common to see somebody using such a high percentage of calories coming from protein only.

#4

[quote]TribulusKing wrote:
and how are your results and energy levels with this ratio ?
for me its not very common to see somebody using such a high percentage of calories coming from protein only. [/quote]

In so far as heavy lifting over the duration of no more than 45 mins or so I’d say other than the predicable and expected fatigue, I’ve observed no major short comings in regard to energy.

I do however conjecture I’d derive more energy from a higher consumption of the latter two. What would you suggest as more optimal ratio?

I should have also mention that said ratio was more in line with cutting weight and calories rather than attempting to build greater mass.

Mass building ratio looks more like 65%/25&/20% … Protein/Carb/Fat

#5

40 40 20 has been a consistantly floated number for MASS GAINING obviously from there, you would adjust that for your specific goals, and how your body adapts to certain nutrients.

My body seems to prefer fat to carbs, so i am kind of on a hybrid anabolic diet with a refeed on the weekends, although not quite as extreme.

with that amount of protein, i would recomend one ‘low’ day a week. I have seen this mentioned in various sources, it is basically so the body does not get used to having an overload of protein and start wasting it or not using it. You MAY decide this day is also a good day to refeed on carbs, but it definately should be on a rest day.

Just my 2 cents.

#6

understand that all “western” exercise science is focused around the merits of regular, vigorous endurance training exercise (RVEET) and that 99/100 ex phys PhD’s in the US don’t know jack about getting big and strong.

#7

[quote]Chalky09Aus wrote:
40 40 20 has been a consistantly floated number for MASS GAINING obviously from there, you would adjust that for your specific goals, and how your body adapts to certain nutrients.

My body seems to prefer fat to carbs, so i am kind of on a hybrid anabolic diet with a refeed on the weekends, although not quite as extreme.

with that amount of protein, i would recomend one ‘low’ day a week. I have seen this mentioned in various sources, it is basically so the body does not get used to having an overload of protein and start wasting it or not using it. You MAY decide this day is also a good day to refeed on carbs, but it definately should be on a rest day.

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

So something like a low protein/carb up day? I like the idea but now I’m beginning to question my previous training schematic wondering if under consumption of carbs (which my body seems to prefer over fat) limited training and strength gains.

Well I was never meant to be perfect. Thanks to all for the insight. Back to the drawing board as it were …

Cheers

#8

[quote]hardedge wrote:
I myself make it a point to use this ratio … 75&/15%/10& (protein/fat/carb)

[quote]

You can’t be fucking serious – less than 20% fat and nearly no carbs?

#9

[quote]hardedge wrote:
TribulusKing wrote:
and how are your results and energy levels with this ratio ?
for me its not very common to see somebody using such a high percentage of calories coming from protein only.

In so far as heavy lifting over the duration of no more than 45 mins or so I’d say other than the predicable and expected fatigue, I’ve observed no major short comings in regard to energy.

I do however conjecture I’d derive more energy from a higher consumption of the latter two. What would you suggest as more optimal ratio?

I should have also mention that said ratio was more in line with cutting weight and calories rather than attempting to build greater mass.

Mass building ratio looks more like 65%/25&/20% … Protein/Carb/Fat[/quote]

Anyone please correct me if im wrong:
Dont forget about Gluconeogenesis .
When your eating a too large portion of your calories from protein only ( or almost)
Your Glucagon goes up which cause your liver to empty its stored glycogen to protect you from hypoglycemia , and after it will encourage you to break down amino acids trough the process of Gluconeogenesis to produce glucose and refill liver glycogen.

So in short comsuming too much protein can do exactly the same thing than uping your carbs.
This is without mentioning the fact that comsuming big protein meals with low fat will result in higher insulin secretion that can slow down your fatloss goals . ( if Fatloss is desired)
This would be coming from a faster digestion

For ratio recommendations
I think i woulnt be right for me to do any recommandations
As an insulin resistant boy, to stay around 10% (on calipers)
My diet goes Like this:
At Maintenance Cals
Fish , Red Meat , Eggs , Nuts , Chicken , 5 pounds of veggies (mostly Cruciferous) with
an addition of a fat source at every meal.
Basically 40-40-20 protein-fat-carbs

i dont think its the best ratio (especially for endurance or non-insulin resistant people)
but think its ok for maintenance of a certain body composition.

So if your goal would be a little fatloss maybe a little more Moderate protein and Higher fat diet would be the best approach to control the insulin levels and open up the fat storages.

  • plus giving you some raw material for energy levels .
#10

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:

You can’t be fucking serious – less than 20% fat and nearly no carbs?
[/quote]

This.